Let's talk CD Players!

[Bald1]

I still have a pair of dedicated CD players in my systems. I have an Eastsound ED-E5 (Philips VAM1202 optical pickup and Crystal CS4390 Delta-Sigma DAC) in my stereo setup as well as an even older Philips CDC-935 (CDM12.1 transport and SAA7341 DAC) in my home theater system.

 

[Ceburaska]

Lovely Sony X77ES. Used less than my tuner and turntables, but more than my server/ streamer. Although I’ve ripped all my CDs I just don’t really like the server control interface. Frankly the less like a computer digital audio is, the happier I am.
Sorry for the photo quality.

 

[typericey]

I occasionally use a JVC CD player from 1988 with a Benchmark DAC1. If the JVC didn't have a digital out, I would not still be using it. The difference between it and the Benchmark isn't all that subtle, and the comparison is not to the JVC's advantage.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if most modern disc players sound about the same with an external DAC. A Sony CD player I used to own, for example, built a few years after the JVC, sounded much less congested.

On forums and customer reviews, some people say CD player output "sounds better." Could it be that some manufacturers (then and now) add euphonic coloration?

 

[Ceburaska]

On forums and customer reviews, some people say CD player output "sounds better." Could it be that some manufacturers (then and now) add euphonic coloration?

More likely the usual expectations-drive-reality stuff that goes in with all Hi-Fi equipment.
I’ve got my CD player running through my dac, mainly cos it seems easier, all digital sources into dac into amp.
Frankly can’t be arsed to dick around and see if I can extract an extra 0.1% improvement. But then, that’s my expectations driving reality.

 

[Ceburaska]

And is there a case for more expensive (yet still sensibly priced) CD transports such as the Cambridge Audio CXC? Is it supposed to be more durable? It's twice the price ofvan entry level Marantz but hey, if it lasts twice as long before needing repairs...

If you want durable, get a butt ugly Philips player with a CDM1 mechanism. It will outlast the format (possibly) and you (probably).
PS I’ve never had one, I’m just repeating what I’ve read numerous times. And I’m not saying it’ll sound better either!
PPS Marantz had prettier versions that cost more. Allegedly sound better, probably don’t.

 

[Eirikur]

On forums and customer reviews, some people say CD player output "sounds better." Could it be that some manufacturers (then and now) add euphonic coloration?

Yes, some do.
My Pioneer PD-S505 has "Legato Link", a fancy term for incorrect filtering.

 

[technophreak]

I have a Creek Audio Evolution 50CD. Player and DAC. I'd be willing to send it in for measurements as I've been curious how disappointed I'll be with it's objective performance.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Did a title search here and did not find much discussion.

- Do you still own a dedicated* CD Player (or players)? *plays CDs only Why or why not?
- If yes, what model(s)? Pics would be nice.
- anecdotes about CD playback most welcome
- links to measurements of CD players also welcome

Love this player, maybe for looks over all else. Quiet as can be. Drawer opens very smoothly and is solid. Plays SACD’s as well.
I’m at that age where any mediocre CD player sounds as good as the best, so my saying the sound is phenomenal may lack credibility, but it sounds phenomenal. Balanced outputs to my amp.

 

[anmpr1]

I wonder if 20 years down the road there will be a CD player 'revival' like the 'vinyl' revival? Actually, I'm not wondering that at all!

On a serious note, I recall how early and mid era CD players had helpful front panel features. You could easily program tracks, and index (remember indexing?). Some allowed speed control and jogging. The few I've seen lately just have a play, pause and next track button. I don't even know how you would program tracks. I guess it can be done on the new players. Somehow.

Out of curiosity I checked around and found that McIntosh was selling a CD transport for five thousand dollars. No DAC. Just a disc spinner. Mac used to make well thought out gear that had long term value. Who pays five thousand dollars for a 'transport'? According to the blurb, "...data is read at twice normal speed for better error correction and tracking." Has anyone ever experienced this sort of problem? Or is it something McIntosh invented simply in order to sell an expensive half a CD player to people with more money than sense? I just don't get that sort of thing. This sort of cynical marketing really lowers my opinion of McIntosh significantly.

 

[BillG]

- Do you still own a dedicated* CD Player (or players)? *plays CDs only Why or why not?

In active duty? Other than the DVD writer in my desktop computer - well, it's under the my desk actually - no. And even it's nothing special: TSSTcorp DVD+-RW SH-216AB. However, it gets the job down whenever I call upon it.

I've got a six disc player somewhere in the closet that was still functioning the last time I used it, 5 - 8 years ago now. A Sony, I think, or is it Pioneer?

 

[Wombat]

I wonder if 20 years down the road there will be a CD player 'revival' like the 'vinyl' revival? Actually, I'm not wondering that at all!

On a serious note, I recall how early and mid era CD players had helpful front panel features. You could easily program tracks, and index (remember indexing?). Some allowed speed control and jogging. The few I've seen lately just have a play, pause and next track button. I don't even know how you would program tracks. I guess it can be done on the new players. Somehow.

Out of curiosity I checked around and found that McIntosh was selling a CD transport for five thousand dollars. No DAC. Just a disc spinner. Mac used to make well thought out gear that had long term value. Who pays five thousand dollars for a 'transport'? According to the blurb, "...data is read at twice normal speed for better error correction and tracking." Has anyone ever experienced this sort of problem? Or is it something McIntosh invented simply in order to sell an expensive half a CD player to people with more money than sense? I just don't get that sort of thing. This sort of cynical marketing really lowers my opinion of McIntosh significantly.

I wonder why I cling to expecting rationality in HiFi.

 

[Emdub]

On forums and customer reviews, some people say CD player output "sounds better." Could it be that some manufacturers (then and now) add euphonic coloration?

Interesting that you should be asking...I’ve still got a DBX CD player (gathering dust) that came with controls for manipulating output.
Here’s the description.
“The DBX DX5 features three unique dbx signal processing circuits:

DAIR (digital audio impact recovery), a 2-band design for adding impact to musical transients.

Compression control, also a 2-band design, for background listening, making car cassettes, and easier taping of CDs.

Ambience control, for adding and subtracting difference information in the midrange and treble, increasing/decreasing the spaciousness of the sound.

Specifications

Disc format: CD

Digital converter: 2 x PCM56P, 16 bit, linear phase

CD Mechanism: SF-86

Frequency response: 10Hz to 20kHz

Dynamic range: 96dB

Signal to Noise Ratio: 100dB

Channel separation: 90dB

Total harmonic distortion: 0.003%

Line output: 2V

Dimensions: 17-1/8 x 3-1/2 x 11-7/8 inches

Weight: 11lbs”

 

[milw50717]

Speaking of which, the tray on the JVC is beginning to have trouble opening and closing. I assume it needs new belts. For those who have done it, is it hard changing belts? Do different models usually require different size belts?

There is a variety of different sized belts out there as there were differences in the transports used. Cleaning any old, dried or crusty grease from the rails and then lubricating them again may also do the trick. In some cases replacing the belt may be possible without taking the transport apart and other times, not. Have a look for videos on how to do this and for replacement belts for your particular model of player or transport.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

I use a Parasound CDP1000 modified for XLR-AES/Ebu output into a Parasound Dac2000.
Sounds great. I have used various DVD or Blu-ray player as transport feeding into the DAC, the latest is an Oppo 103. I can hear the difference, but that could come from using Toskink or cinch digital links instead of the AES/Ebu. Onboard DAC are beaten easily, an Oppo 105/205 could be a challenge. Saving for a CEC CD player with a puck...

 

[MondoAudio]

I picked up a Sony DVP-S7700. It's a DVD player from 1999 but I use it for CDs only. It's a heavy piece of kit, weighing a little over 15 lbs.

Specs here:
https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-dvp-s7700-dvd-player/

Laudatory retrospective here:
https://www.whathifi.com/us/features/was-then-sony-dvp-s7700

It's got a pretty cool disc-loading mechanism, which you can see here:

BTW, this is not my video.

 

[VMAT4]

I wonder if 20 years down the road there will be a CD player 'revival' like the 'vinyl' revival? Actually, I'm not wondering that at all!

On a serious note, I recall how early and mid era CD players had helpful front panel features. You could easily program tracks, and index (remember indexing?). Some allowed speed control and jogging. The few I've seen lately just have a play, pause and next track button. I don't even know how you would program tracks. I guess it can be done on the new players. Somehow.

Out of curiosity I checked around and found that McIntosh was selling a CD transport for five thousand dollars. No DAC. Just a disc spinner. Mac used to make well thought out gear that had long term value. Who pays five thousand dollars for a 'transport'? According to the blurb, "...data is read at twice normal speed for better error correction and tracking." Has anyone ever experienced this sort of problem? Or is it something McIntosh invented simply in order to sell an expensive half a CD player to people with more money than sense? I just don't get that sort of thing. This sort of cynical marketing really lowers my opinion of McIntosh significantly.

Wasn't Mac acquired by the same company that owns Denon and Marantz?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Wasn't Mac acquired by the same company that owns Denon and Marantz?

Yes, for a time. Now they have different corporate masters.

 

[VMAT4]

Yes, for a time. Now they have different corporate masters.

Thank you.

 

[digicidal]

As I tend to be very gentle with all of my equipment... I still have all of it and it works. I just don't use it.
After attempting to tell the difference (that actually was blind IIRC) between a "bad rip" (lowest accuracy FLAC) and a pristine CD (at the time only used for the aforementioned rip)... I gave up bothering. It all comes down to time for me... if I had a blemished CD, lived next to train tracks, or something else - maybe it would matter one way or the other. As it is, they both sounded identical to me... never bothered with it again. However, still have and very, very occasionally use:
- Cambridge Audio 650C
- Pioneer Elite PD-M53 & Pioneer PD-M426 (both magazine changers)
- Marantz UD5007 Universal
- Pioneer BDP-05FD - which I keep simply because a BD player with analog video outputs is so DRM-contrarian

I never play movies or music from physical media unless it's new and not ripped yet - and even then only because I'm working on the computer I use to rip them to. Some day I'll have a dedicated listening room and then have a wall full of every source I own... not for any rational purpose of course, but just because I love seeing the passage of time in consumer electronics as far as design aesthetic is concerned. That and having a wall full of gear - even if not actually used - was a childhood dream. In the living room where I do 90% of my listening/watching however, I'd rather have a single-box solution that did everything.

Oh and as a counter-point on one post... I love my Oppo players and hope they keep running forever... despite doubting that will be the case.

 

[captain paranoia]

I don't think you get what I am saying, the standalone machines can read, track, buffer, error correct and interpolate better than any CD rom drive and piece of software you can name. And, they do it in real time while you're playing the disc...

I'm not convinced...

A CDROM drive with C2 error detection will provide the full CIRC recovery that a dedicated CD player will. C2 capable CDROMs are common enough.

A CDROM drive has much more responsive servo tracking loops to allow operation at multiple times CD read speed (e.g my PC CDROM is x42). Sometimes a faster-spinning disc will read better than a slower dirve, sometimes the reverse. The faster servo loop is sometimes helpful, sometimes not... Due to the need to read at much higher rates, the data recovery circuits are much wider bandwidth. This must give better eye patterns and margins if the read rate is throttled.

I have discs that I can never play on a CD player, but I can get a perfect rip using EAC. It takes a while, but it bangs away retrying until it has managed to pull as much good data off the disc as possible. Likewise, I have discs that will play on a CD player, but give rip errors (and they're CDs. not Copy Control discs).

[edit] but if those four machines are what you are comparing to my £15 CDROM drive, then maybe...]