KEF LS50 & LS50W - Why the huge price difference

[JJB70]

At a $900 difference (about £735) the LS50W looks a lot more attractive than the £1200 here. I can get a very nice looking compact form factor class D amp with onboard DAC and more than enough power for less than half of that difference which leaves me enough to pay for my old Sony ES gear to be renewed.

I demo'd the passive LS50 powered by a Cyrus One HD yesterday next to the powered version, and obviously while it was in a dealer listening room and not my own room I have to say any differences were marginal and basically irrelevant for me.

 

[maty]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-of-the-kef-r3s.7867/post-189750

KEF LS50W from HiFicritic [PDF] (thanks to Google Images)

 

[maty]

There has been luck, now you can read the PDF.

and the PDF from Hificritic:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwielfrTpb7kAhWN4YUKHf8yCVsQjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https://oslohificenter.no/streaming/aktive-hoyttalere/kef-ls50-wireless?iid=396959&pid=OHC-OHCProduct-ExternalReviews.OHC-PageLink-FileLink&psig=AOvVaw2Km2sg6JNc0IG6yCapST_g&ust=1567930818915069

I could not upload it to the ASR. Besides, it may not be the right thing to do.

************* *************

PS: to understand the spectral decay:

[Video] Speaker measurements by Danny Richie
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eo-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/

 

[restorer-john]

So plan B is to buy a new working system and to have my old Sony gear overhauled and kept as my hobby horse in the office.

Good choice. And find a tech that measures first, pokes around later. You want baseline measurements on that 700 before he even warms up his soldering iron!

I've got a 444esxII here (same basically) if you want some numbers to throw at him. No random cap changes, "upgrades" or the like. If he talks upgrades and veils lifted- do a runner.

Mine is 1989 stock and I wouldn't touch it. It's perfect.

 

[sfdoddsy]

I have LS50 passives and have the technology to EQ both their natural response with MiniDSP and their in-room response with MiniDSP or Anthem ARC.

So, should I choose, I can get awfully close to the LS50W.

If I weren’t concerned about the rather flaky reliabilityof the wireless version I would consider it. But given my existing equipment I’m satisfied I get close to the maximum performance the LS50 is capable of.

 

[JJB70]

Good choice. And find a tech that measures first, pokes around later. You want baseline measurements on that 700 before he even warms up his soldering iron!

I've got a 444esxII here (same basically) if you want some numbers to throw at him. No random cap changes, "upgrades" or the like. If he talks upgrades and veils lifted- do a runner.

Mine is 1989 stock and I wouldn't touch it. It's perfect.

Thanks for the advice! One of my pleasures is drooling over some of the gear on classic audio websites, like the statement Pioneer gear with the honeycomb internal arrangement and array of depth charge size capacitors. I am half tempted to adopt classic hifi as a hobby in its own right.

I have seen a few compact amplifiers over the last last couple of weeks which pack tremendous functionality and sound fine and are nice enough to have a bit of aesthetic appeal and good tactile feel at very reasonable cost. Products like the Quad Vena 2,Cyrus One HD, Yamaha WXA50, TEAC UI503 and although I haven't seen it in person yet and even though I hate to admit it given my opinion of Paul Mcgowan the PS Sprout 100 looks like a nice little amp. From an objective perspective these are wonderful times as good performance has never been so accessible. That tempts me to take advantage of the accessibility of modern gear for listening and also indulge my love of classic quality at the same time.

 

[jhaider]

At least in America:

LS50: $1300
LS50W: $2200

So, a $900 difference.

What is gives you:

* Built-in amplification, more than it can handle.
* Subwoofer output with adjustable 2-way crossover.
* Active crossover for the Uni-Q that improves the frequency response (and possibly imaging if better phase aligned).
* Adjustable DSP to compensate for room placement.
* Streaming.
* All-in-one package

That seems like a decent deal.

I think the LSX is the only KEF wireless active model with useful streaming capabilities, i.e. Airplay.

 

[watchnerd]

but £1200 will buy you a very good digital amplifier or amplifier plus DAC and leave you change.

But that wouldn't be wireless, man.

 

[BillG]

I think the LSX is the only KEF wireless active model with useful streaming capabilities, i.e. Airplay.

The LS50W supports DLNA as well, and there are numerous client-server application packages that can utilize it...

 

[BillG]

Products like the Quad Vena 2,Cyrus One HD, Yamaha WXA50, TEAC UI503

SMSL make the A6 and A8, both of which are nice looking integrateds that utilize ICEpower modules. They don't include built in streaming, though...

Here's a performance analysis of the DAC subsystem in the A6:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/08/measurements-smsl-a6-as-dac-part-ii.html

 

[doctorjuggles]

The LS50W supports DLNA as well, and there are numerous client-server application packages that can utilize it...

Roon capable endpoints too, which the LSX isn’t
I’ve corrected this as I originally said they’re Roon Ready/RAAT certified, which they aren’t

 

[jhaider]

The LS50W supports DLNA as well, and there are numerous client-server application packages that can utilize it...

I've seen the letters DLNA around but have no idea what they mean. Is it a cross-platform lossless streaming technology equivalent to Airplay?

 

[BillG]

I've seen the letters DLNA around but have no idea what they mean. Is it a cross-platform lossless streaming technology equivalent to Airplay?

In essence, yes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

 

[Julf]

I've seen the letters DLNA around but have no idea what they mean. Is it a cross-platform lossless streaming technology equivalent to Airplay?

Yes, but it doesn't really (as far as I can remember) address content format - it is more about control and access.

 

[BillG]

Yes, but it doesn't really (as far as I can remember) address content format - it is more about control and access.

Some DLNA servers have the ability to transcode, typically used on WAN access, as well as the ability to stream lossless in the native format of the file(s)...

 

[JJB70]

But that wouldn't be wireless, man.

Is this the place to ask wireless enthusiasts about when wireless products will lose power supply wires and be tied to power outlets? Weirdly enough, that is another reason why a passive set up might be more sensible for me, even though my house is only ten years old it doesn't have power outlets dotted around every room perfectly placed for wireless speakers and it's going to be a lot easier to just stay passive (I'm not interested in bringing in an electrician to wire in extra sockets followed by redecorating the room etc. If I was going to do that I may as well go the full hog and lay in full multi[-channel wiring for a surround system.

 

[BillG]

Is this the place to ask wireless enthusiasts about when wireless products will lose power supply wires and be tied to power outlets?

Well, Chromecast Audio and Raspberry Pi can be run off of battery packs. Granted the packs would need to recharged occasionally, and I've no idea about the power usage of either, but I've read about such setups, even on ASR...

 

[jhaider]

In essence, yes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

Based on that it seems like DLNA needs special programs and lots of computer skills to work, unlike Airplay that just works. You click on the speakers you want to play in iTunes or on the menu bar, and they just play So my initial statement seems correct.

KEF marketing realizes KEF engineering messed up. Hence this super-defensive paragraph:

"What the LS50W Doesn’t Do
"There are two prominent wireless conventions for entertainment devices on the market: Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) and Apple AirPlay. Despite what a lot of tech bloggers may tell you, DLNA is the most widely used format in the world today – more devices are available for direct plug and play (uPnP) via DLNA than any other format. Since you can’t drop every single available technology into a product and expect to sell the product at a price people are willing to pay, the choice that makes obvious sense is to have your product aligned with as many devices already in the market as possible. So therefore, the LS50W supports DLNA and doesn’t support Apple AirPlay (directly). This doesn’t mean you can’t stream to the LS50W from your Apple devices, it just means – like with a slew of other audio products on the market today – you have to put a device (such as an AirPort Express) in the wireless signal chain."
(https://us.kef.com/blog/introduction-to-the-ls50w-part-1)

 

[JJB70]

Well, Chromecast Audio and Raspberry Pi can be run off of battery packs. Granted the packs would need to recharged occasionally, and I've no idea about the power usage of either, but I've read about such setups, even on ASR...

Once you go battery for the power amp or decent sized speakers then you're into needing a pretty powerful battery and frequent charging. Battery works for portable devices but I'm not sure it is a good solution for domestic audio which tends to be immobile and with significant load demand.

 

[BillG]

Based on that it seems like DLNA needs special programs and lots of computer skills to work, unlike Airplay that just works.

Depending upon the client-server package being used, it can be a bit involved to configure - that's why my preferred streaming protocol is Chromecast. But, lots of skills? I don't find that to be true - Then again, I've got a master's in Computer Science...