KEF LS50 & LS50W - Why the huge price difference

[flowjm]

There are a lot of claims about how the actives are better than the passive LS50's. I'm a bit skeptical that the actives would be that much better than the passives set up with enough clean power and a little EQ.

I think the main weakness of the passives is the crossover, which the actives don't have.

 

[Juhazi]

For sure the actives have a crossover, but done in dsp. By tests published, the LS50W is voiced differently, better in my opinion but I haven't heard it myself.

 

[flowjm]

For sure the actives have a crossover, but done in dsp. By tests published, the LS50W is voiced differently, better in my opinion but I haven't heard it myself.

Of course they must have a crossover, I meant that they don't have the one that's in the passive version.

 

[DNM]

It's notable that for speakers which have been around a while neither model seems to be heavily discounted and even B stock and ex-demo stock still isn't that deeply discounted (at least in the UK).

Not sure what you mean by "heavily" discounted but worth calling Nintronics and asking them for their best price on LS50w.

 

[PierreV]

Here in the UK, SRP of the LS50 is £800, while for the LS50W it is £2000. A difference of £1200.

As others have already noted, the difference is a bit less elsewhere - you Brits get a very, very good deal on the LS50, especially with the current £ level.

That being said, I have listened to the LS50 + dual Hypex NC 400 mono quite a bit (I own them, but I have now moved the Hypex to the Focal) and the LS50W at a friend's house for a few hours (helping him set up) and I had a marked preference for the LS50W (so much for ownership bias). This is obviously subjective and not a side by side comparison.

As a stand-alone, no fuss, system, it is a great choice imho, provided you can manage the inconvenience of the wired connection between the speakers. But I do share the reliability concern. Commercially and, imho, very unfortunately, an eventual lack of reliability may not matter much as the target audience is now probably spending £800 on a disposable phone every two year or so...

 

[LTig]

I am in two minds on active digital speakers. I have a pair of older KEF active digital speakers in my home office and they are very good (superb for the price I paid) and certainly the simplicity and integrated system design of active speakers is the future. From a SQ perspective I do think these designs are the future.

I second that. Active speakers deliver better SQ than a similar priced passive system (speakers plus amp).

However I have two things holding me back from jumping in, one entirely subjective and a purely personal preference, and the second a concern of longer term supportability.
The subjective bit is I happen to like classic amplifiers, CD players etc and am really rather reluctant to let go of big lumps of metal with dials (and even better if there are VU meters). Yes, it is a silly attitude, completely illogical but whatever I might say about active designs being the future and outperforming passive models I also think a decent passive set up is entirely satisfactory so in terms of SQ I see no issue with remaining passive.

If you have a good system keep it. No need to change anything. Good both for your wallet and for the environment.

The other point is that passive speakers are fundamentally simple and long lived and don't require much TLC. I'm just a bit worried that these new active speakers will be fix by replacement very quickly and I am not in the habit of replacing speakers (the ones I have now have been with me since the early 90's). If I was to pay a lot for a pair of active digital speakers I'd be worried about their long term durability.

Buy professional (Genelec, Neumann) and don't worry about long term durability and customer support.

 

[JJB70]

If you have a good system keep it. No need to change anything. Good both for your wallet and for the environment.

Indeed, a fair point. I am looking at quotes to overhaul my existing amplifier. The gear I have has been with me since the early 90's, it has served me well and I still like it but I also think that after over 25 years it's given me my moneys worth and although SQ, remains excellent I must admit it has fallen behind somewhat on functionality in terms of streaming and computer based audio. I have a bonus next month and this year I think I will use some of it to renew my hifi in some way. I'm looking at various options (buy a new component based system, buy active speakers, keep the old set up as a hobby alongside a more practical working system etc) and am hoping to follow the same path as the existing set up in "buying once but buying right" (well, buy once for a couple of decades....).
I am struggling to find an amplifier I really like anything like as much as the old TA-F700ES, they all feel a bit low rent in comparison. However there are plenty of nice well featured amplifiers that would meet my needs perfectly and which don't cost a great deal. A dealer has offered a very good price on the Rotel A12 or A14, and there are good deals on Yamaha amps. I actually fancied the Yamaha A-S1100 as being an amplifier out of the same mould as the old Sony I have but I think below the surface it isn't quite as rosy.
I like the LS50 speakers, they have WAF, are compact and I'm very happy with the sound. I'd probably go for the wireless version all things being equal but I could get the passive version, buy a nice amp with a good DAC and have enough left over to have my old gear overhauled and more.

 

[flowjm]

Indeed, a fair point. I am looking at quotes to overhaul my existing amplifier. The gear I have has been with me since the early 90's, it has served me well and I still like it but I also think that after over 25 years it's given me my moneys worth and although SQ, remains excellent I must admit it has fallen behind somewhat on functionality in terms of streaming and computer based audio. I have a bonus next month and this year I think I will use some of it to renew my hifi in some way. I'm looking at various options (buy a new component based system, buy active speakers, keep the old set up as a hobby alongside a more practical working system etc) and am hoping to follow the same path as the existing set up in "buying once but buying right" (well, buy once for a couple of decades....).
I am struggling to find an amplifier I really like anything like as much as the old TA-F700ES, they all feel a bit low rent in comparison. However there are plenty of nice well featured amplifiers that would meet my needs perfectly and which don't cost a great deal. A dealer has offered a very good price on the Rotel A12 or A14, and there are good deals on Yamaha amps. I actually fancied the Yamaha A-S1100 as being an amplifier out of the same mould as the old Sony I have but I think below the surface it isn't quite as rosy.
I like the LS50 speakers, they have WAF, are compact and I'm very happy with the sound. I'd probably go for the wireless version all things being equal but I could get the passive version, buy a nice amp with a good DAC and have enough left over to have my old gear overhauled and more.

If you decide to go down the passive route, I suggest considering the Technics SB C700 before settling on the LS50s.

 

[Krunok]

I think the main weakness of the passives is the crossover, which the actives don't have.

Which can be easilly fixed with DSP.

 

[Krunok]

I second that. Active speakers deliver better SQ than a similar priced passive system (speakers plus amp).

Those are 2 acoustically identical speakers (same drivers and enclosure). Active XO wouldn't make any noticeable difference in SQ and as I said in previous post, correcting phase of passive XO can easilly be done with rePhase.

 

[Krunok]

If you decide to go down the passive route, I suggest considering the Technics SB C700 before settling on the LS50s.

Is your recommendation based on measurements or you simply like the way Technics looks?

 

[Ilkless]

Is your recommendation based on measurements or you simply like the way Technics looks?

Measurements, for what it's worth:

Stereophile
Polish measurements plus teardown
German measurements from 2 sources (but heavily-smoothed)

 

[Krunok]

Measurements, for what it's worth:

Stereophile
Polish measurements plus teardown
German measurements from 2 sources (but heavily-smoothed)

It indeed measures good. But for $1700 I believe you can find better speakers.

 

[Ilkless]

It indeed measures good. But for $1700 I believe you can find better speakers.

Depends on requirements I'd think. I struggle to think of a comparable 2-way coaxial, passive or active. There are waveguided non-coaxial active options, sure, and all you really lose out on is vertical directivity performance. Or larger speakers with more extension and headroom, possibly, but still non-coaxial.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Woofer with class D (200 watts) but tweeter with class AB (30 watts).

Problem: what evolves faster these days are the DACs...

Wrong.
There has been zero audible advance in DACs for decades. The specs have got better but they were good enough years ago, and better than the other alternatives like LP, FM radio and tape by a more than substantial margin.
LP, FM and tape still sound fine, if not perfect, because the improvement in performance of digital was way more than anybody can hear, IHO.

 

[Krunok]

Depends on requirements I'd think. I struggle to think of a comparable 2-way coaxial, passive or active. There are waveguided non-coaxial active options, sure, and all you really lose out on is vertical directivity performance. Or larger speakers with more extension and headroom, possibly, but still non-coaxial.

I don't remember JJ said 2-way coaxial is a requirement. Frankly, I'm not really a believer in coaxial technology as to me it seems it brings more issues than it solves. Regarding directivity, horizontal seem more important to me than vertical as I don't really move much in vertical plane while listening.

 

[maty]

Wrong.
There has been zero audible advance in DACs for decades. The specs have got better but they were good enough years ago, and better than the other alternatives like LP, FM radio and tape by a more than substantial margin.
LP, FM and tape still sound fine, if not perfect, because the improvement in performance of digital was way more than anybody can hear, IHO.

I disagree.

It is just now when improvements in measurements are entering the range of what is no longer audible by our ears / brain. One of the more important improvements has been the jitter. Now we know that we are much more sensitive than we thought a few years ago. Of course, you need a good/very good DAC analog section, preamp and amp to take advantage of the improvements. And... a very clean electrical power (at mains or after a very good filtered) too!

The sad thing is that the music recordings aka PRODUCTS, despite the great technology improvement, are usually much worse than those of yesteryear, but that is another issue.

But it is not the thread.

- End off topic -

 

[Krunok]

Wrong.
There has been zero audible advance in DACs for decades. The specs have got better but they were good enough years ago, and better than the other alternatives like LP, FM radio and tape by a more than substantial margin.
LP, FM and tape still sound fine, if not perfect, because the improvement in performance of digital was way more than anybody can hear, IHO.

Once you enter the discussion with Maty the fate of this thread is doomed.

 

[maty]

To finish,

https://www.google.com/search?q=kef+ls50w+jitter+measurements

Nothing. Maybe in paper? If someone has docs...

 

[maty]

Measurements, for what it's worth:

Stereophile
Polish measurements plus teardown
German measurements from 2 sources (but heavily-smoothed)

https://www.stereophile.com/content/technics-premium-class-sb-c700-loudspeaker-measurements

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eo-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/