This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

[pozz]

You forgot the scare quotes around “technical.”

They were there in spirit

 

[pozz]

That is what I"m getting at though: to reverse it: you can be simultaneously crooked, and loony. The question is what are you being crooked about, and what are you being loony about?

Someone manufacturing cables may believe cables make a sonic difference, yet be crooked in other aspects of the business, to make sales.

I won't push you on what you believe you know of this manufacturer, but as yet I don't have evidence against my initial inference about his beliefs.

And as I said, having interacted with some other manufacturers of tweaks I take to be b.s., I believe they were sincerely deluded.

Let's say a business is honestly-run, in the sense that it respects its customers and completes the exchange of goods and cash without issue. That's only one aspect.

A sincere delusion can't be the end point of responsibility for that business's owner or, particularly, for the designer of its technical products. If a particular innovation represents a true improvement which would affect the entire industry because it represents a fundamentally new paradigm (in Thomas Kuhn's sense of the word), then this becomes less a product issue than one of theory. If we take them at their word, what the cable companies are claiming is at that level. It's as if they invent entirely new technical fields with each product. But their presentation and general approach makes it all so trivial, though. It's so easy to dismiss as so much advertising. Sure, that's the function, but confronting those claims with a straight face and sensible questions will cause the entire facade to collapse.

 

[cjfrbw]

I forgive the cable business to some extent because they are catering the the need for belief, not necessity. Many audiophiles demand expensive cables as audio jewelry with their expensive components, and they want to believe they make an enormous difference.

I have not heard one mainstream audio critic yet who does not rattle on about how certain components require certain types of exotic power cords or cables to optimize them.

If they said they didn't believe in cables, they would no longer be mainstream audio critics, because the cable business is so darned profitable and it's much preferable to offend the occasional die hard objectivist than the majority subjectivist who need the promotional mythology. Those critics scoffing at cable beliefs would just be dropped from the industry.

There is a point where you just have to accept what the market demands and wants to throw its money at, whether you make those particular choices for yourself or not.

 

[pozz]

I don't see it as a matter of offense, of conflicting views. By their action these companies confuse people. And it's wilful, as in the Shunyata example. Like @MattHooper said, they deliberately avoid providing any meaningful information.

 

[JJB70]

I have no issue with people wanting expensive stuff and with manufacturers serving that demand on an honest basis. If manufacturers said "our cable looks terrific and has a splendid jacket but it's just jewelry and won't improve sound" I would have no issue with them. Let's be honest, spending $$$$$$'s on cable because you like audio jewellery isn't really much different than spending $$$$$$$`s on a DAC because you like luxury build and audio jewellery. The problem is that manufacturers insist on making all sorts of claims about improving sound quality based on hocus pocus voodoo and gross misrepresentation of electrical principles. These people are not completely dumb as they are very adept at developing arguments derived from a valid principle but then misrepresenting it to the point it becomes a lie. The skin effect is a good example, the skin effect is real but the way it is presented by audio cable sellers is nonsense. Either companies pushing these claims are dishonest or incompetent. To use the DAC comparison again, it is like those stupid graphics that show a serious of coarse steps or a bar chart claiming to demonstrate what happens in an inferior DAC next to a splendid sine wave of whatever DAC is being promoted. And there are the classic efforts to dismiss criticism by misrepresenting sceptics as saying that cable does not matter. As far as I know, nobody questions the importance of cable in a wired system. You aren't going to get much joy out of a wired system with no cable. And it is true that the electrical properties of cables have to be appropriate for the intended duty. And good connectors are very beneficial. The problem is that these things are not expensive to get right and are delivered by any decent inexpensive cable correctly specified.

 

[Julf]

And as I said, having interacted with some other manufacturers of tweaks I take to be b.s., I believe they were sincerely deluded.

If they are sincerely deluded as opposed to deliberately fraudulent, wouldn't that also imply that they are utterly incompetent?

 

[M00ndancer]

And it's wilful, as in the Shunyata example. Like @MattHooper said, they deliberately avoid providing any meaningful information.

Correct, not mention that there is no audible difference between the cables.

 

[pozz]

True believers aren't afraid of tests, but I think these guys are.

 

[MattHooper]

Exciting new products announced!

https://positive-feedback.com/industry-news/nordost-at-rmaf-2019/

It's worth going to the Nordost site page on that resonator product as well. It's quite something how the patter directly targets the insecurities of audiophiles "we've identified a NEW problem affecting your system! And we can sell you something to can fix it!" And naturally this can be used with pretty much every type of gear someone may own or worry about: just place it near your DACs, amps whatever!
The newly synchronized sound of your system will be DRAMATICALLY enhanced.

Cast as wide a net as possible so no potential customer will be left off the table.

I wonder how often these guys get critical questions about their claims from people attending their demos.

 

[amirm]

Main company I'd like to see tested for its interconnects is Shunyata. Out of everyone, they push the technical angle in their advertising the most.

They do. I have one of their power cables which I intend to test one day.

 

[MattHooper]

I always remembered the old SNL commercial parody featuring the Triple Trac Razor. It looked just like a standard razor commercial in the 70's, in this case describing in glowing terms how each of the 3 blades does it's work. Then it simply ended:

"The Triple Trac Razor. Because...you'll believe anything."

Oh how I'd love to see that tag line appear on a high end cable company's ad.

(The irony of that SNL commercial reference is that, of course, triple blade razors actually came in to existence not terribly long after that parody, and now we have 5 blade razors on the market!)

 

[MattHooper]

Question:

When a cable company like Nordost announces a new product...doesn't seem to matter how minor....they pop up as articles "news" in most of the on-line hi-end mags, e.g. the Positive Feedback article above. The articles are always posited as "news" not advertisements. But do these on-line sites get paid to post announcements by these cable companies? Just wondering why it seems they appear on every site.

 

[pozz]

Question:

When a cable company like Nordost announces a new product...doesn't seem to matter how minor....they pop up as articles "news" in most of the on-line hi-end mags, e.g. the Positive Feedback article above. The articles are always posited as "news" not advertisements. But do these on-line sites get paid to post announcements by these cable companies? Just wondering why it seems they appear on every site.

It's kind of like business news that way. News of restructurings, product launches or acquisitions generates income even for the middlemen.

 

[scott wurcer]

The sad thing is that this in particular is just total BS which technically should be actionable as out and out fraud, " The QPOINT Resonance Synchronizer emits a subtle field which manipulates all electromechanical resonances within its immediate proximity so that they vibrate in unison."

 

[StevenEleven]

I always remembered the old SNL commercial parody featuring the Triple Trac Razor. It looked just like a standard razor commercial in the 70's, in this case describing in glowing terms how each of the 3 blades does it's work. Then it simply ended:

"The Triple Trac Razor. Because...you'll believe anything."

Oh how I'd love to see that tag line appear on a high end cable company's ad.

(The irony of that SNL commercial reference is that, of course, triple blade razors actually came in to existence not terribly long after that parody, and now we have 5 blade razors on the market!)

It took SNL to predict the three-blade razor.

It took The Onion to predict the five-blade razor:
https://www.theonion.com/fuck-everything-were-doing-five-blades-1819584036

Mods my apologies if this goes too far in terms of language. Feel free to delete without explanation. It is meant purely in the name of fun and humor, but I get that there’s probably a line in the sand somewhere.

 

[Julf]

Question:

When a cable company like Nordost announces a new product...doesn't seem to matter how minor....they pop up as articles "news" in most of the on-line hi-end mags, e.g. the Positive Feedback article above. The articles are always posited as "news" not advertisements. But do these on-line sites get paid to post announcements by these cable companies? Just wondering why it seems they appear on every site.

Then there is the issue of paid "influencers"...

 

[BDWoody]

Question:

When a cable company like Nordost announces a new product...doesn't seem to matter how minor....they pop up as articles "news" in most of the on-line hi-end mags, e.g. the Positive Feedback article above. The articles are always posited as "news" not advertisements. But do these on-line sites get paid to post announcements by these cable companies? Just wondering why it seems they appear on every site.

Press release...

Same thing with new lawyers joining law firms, etc...

 

[FrantzM]

This is getting hilarious .... please visit this website/page

https://www.skograndcables.com/skogrand-stravinsky

The Stravinsky speaker cable is $27,000; in the realm of High End Audio not that expensive . The company is however bent on making a definitely different aesthetics statement...
I don't know how Hard Rock would sound through these but would be perfect for a person who mostly listen to Baroque Western Classical Music ....

 

[Juhazi]

Wow, major improvement over Jorma Design cables, from Sweden (visually)

 

[Eirikur]

Correct, not mention that there is no audible difference between the cables.

The thing is: suppose there are audible differences, why would you want to buy a ridiculously overpriced fixed sound filter?
Suppose you want a different tone when you switch from Tony Scott to Tony Kaye - it can happen to you, it can happen to me, it can happen to everyone eventually!