Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC

[graz_lag]

What about a test similar to the one archimago did?

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/01/internet-blind-test-do-digital-audio.html

It was really a fun test.

Your 175 hrs. burning time are not divisible by 24 hrs. in a round manner, would you mind revising them to 168 or 192?
Thank you so much.

 

[Willem]

As for dsp tube simulation, Panasonic offers this optional setting on some of its Bluray players. There is no magic there.

 

[amirm]

Amir, can you record some music samples played through the totalDAC and another DAC that measures better and let people download them and try to ABX them ? I think results would be interesting.

The skeptics will say that you ruined the sound of R2R by recording them with a normal ADC. And then playing them with ordinary DACs. So who are we trying to convince with such a test?

 

[daftcombo]

I see that some member like to play.

Someone attracted my attention on totaldac power supplies.

Spoiler: Guess the price!

Actually, it depends what you need:

live-power small power supply: 1200euros incl VAT in Europe, 1100euros excl VAT out of Europe
live-power one-box power supply with 3 outputs: 4300euros incl VAT in Europe, 3950euros excl VAT out of Europe
live-power one-box power supply with 4 outputs: 5400euros incl VAT in Europe, 4950euros excl VAT out of Europe
live-power one-box power supply with 5 outputs: 6500euros incl VAT in Europe, 5950euros excl VAT out of Europe

Bonus: the totaldac XLR to RCA adapter (be careful : only for 1 channel):

Spoiler: How much?!

Sorry, can't find the price. Why not buy something else?

Totaldac/Bibacord AES-EBU cable, 1m: 1800euros incl VAT in Europe, 1650euros excl VAT out of Europe
Totaldac/Esprit power cord, 1.5m: 780euros incl VAT in Europe, 715euros excl VAT out of Europe.

 

[levimax]

The skeptics will say that you ruined the sound of R2R by recording them with a normal ADC. And then playing them with ordinary DACs. So who are we trying to convince with such a test?

I am just curious to see results as we have a "bad measuring" DAC that could be sampled and compared to a "good measuring" DAC. I think it would help put things in perspective for both "objectivists" and "subjectivists".... in the end maybe no one convinced and possibly everyone too lazy to even try but there is information in that result as well as any other result. I do you see your point though. I am always amazed at the strong desire people have to believe in / find "magic".

 

[Juhazi]

I always wondered why there have been no "TUBE" DSP options for those that like the sound of various tube equipment. Various vendors say their XYZ piece has a "tube-like" sound. Why not just make a clean uncolored XYZ piece with "tube-like" DSP options ???

In one of my sets I have a tube preamp in the chain (PrimaLuna Prologue Three) I can feed it with my PC/Audio-GD NFB-12 dac, vinyl-preamp, CD-player's analog out or C-cassette player. Then I have Minidsp 2x4HD before the poweramp, which is at the moment XTZ AP-100 working in A/ABclass. So, often I have three conversions chained... I bought this old PrimaLuna to check if I would hear it. No, I didn't but it is still there just for fun.

But at first when I connected a Hypex DS2.0 to Line2-out of PrimaLuna the response of the Line 1 changed dramatically! Then I bought the Minidsp.

 

[guenthi_r]

I see that some member like to play.

Someone attracted my attention on totaldac power supplies.

View attachment 30406

Spoiler: Guess the price!

Actually, it depends what you need:

Bonus: the totaldac XLR to RCA adapter (be careful : only for 1 channel):

View attachment 30407

Spoiler: How much?!

Sorry, can't find the price. Why not buy something else?

Maybe we should build some R2R-DAC similar to the TOTALDAC, naming it "ASR Audiophile Series", selling these, so Amir never needed Donatings in his life

 

[Thomas savage]

If you got the TotalDAC bundled with your phone for free you'd want to buy a alternative.

 

[Krunok]

If you got the TotalDAC bundled with your phone for free you'd want to buy a alternative.

LOOL

Ok, good to know old Thomas is back - this ultimate insult proves it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Maybe we should build some R2R-DAC similar to the TOTALDAC, naming it "ASR Audiophile Series", selling these, so Amir never needed Donatings in his life

I'd call it the ASR Plankton series.

 

[simbloke]

No no no please tell me that bog standard toroidal transformer in a box doesn't cost somewhere between €1200 and 6000?

Please someone?

 

[Thomas savage]

I'd call it the ASR Plankton series.

ASR TotalPlankton series.

 

[guenthi_r]

ASR TotalPlankton series.

ASR DSG Series (DSG=Distortion Generator)

 

[Krunok]

No no no please tell me that bog standard toroidal transformer in a box doesn't cost somewhere between €1200 and 6000?

Please someone?

Yep, it does. And after Brexit it will cost you UK guys even more. (pun intended!)

 

[Thomas savage]

ASR DSG Series (DSG=Distortion Generator)

That's too honest for the target market, you've taken at least two zeros off our expected retail price with this .

 

[AndrovichIV]

If you play 2 different samples made with the same ADC level matched through the same system everything in the chain will be identical, the only thing different would be the samples. If you can reliably ABX a difference is has to be a difference in the samples. Since ABX testing has been mentioned often in this thread I would be interested how many if anyone could ABX between the samples. I do accept better measurements indicate more transparency but I think it would be an interesting to see what would happen.... since we have a poor measuring DAC it would be a good opportunity to have a group of people compare it to a good measuring DAC.

I do not believe in secret sauce.

The problem with your experiment is that if you find that no one can tell them apart, the detractors of the experiment will say that it was because you introduced an DA step. So, in the language of science, your experiment will not allow you to reject a hypothesis, i.e. that you can tell DACs apart.

 

[PierreV]

The skeptics will say that you ruined the sound of R2R by recording them with a normal ADC. And then playing them with ordinary DACs. So who are we trying to convince with such a test?

I don't think anyone who has a strong opinion will change its mind, true. As far as I know, R2R ADCs aren't widely used in the production of music anyway and that doesn't prevent skeptics from holding their beliefs.

The interest/fun would be, as it was in archimago's test 1) is the difference audible 2) which one is preferred.

That test was really eye-opening: while I apparently could identify the best measuring device by ear, I still think I could have been just lucky at my n=1 personal level, since the differences were so small. In casual or standard listening scenarios, I am 99% sure I wouldn't have noticed a silent switch from the cheap motherboard to the reference device.

On point 1, so far, the common wisdom here has been "likely not audible anyway" for most DAC differences (that's also my opinion), but that hasn't been established (except maybe by the archimago test).

On point 2, a consistent strong preference for one type of device or the other could illuminate an eventual psycho-acoustic effect. The "gold standard" blind speaker listening test does precisely that btw, it provides evidence that certain design parameters/sound characteristics correlate well with user preferences.

It could happen (I hope not but I don't know) that most people prefer a distorted/low SNR signal, yes.

primary outcome: ability to discriminate
secondary outcome if primary outcome result positive: preference.

Now, taking the "nightmare" scenario for some here which would be like 80% of the users can tell there is a difference and out of those 75% prefer the "poor" boutique device, such a result might be poorly received, but science should accept annoying results. Those unpleasing results to happen: in other fields, people have strong preferences for foods rich in highly refined short carbohydrates (aka junk food)

 

[simbloke]

Yep, it does. And after Brexit it will cost you UK guys even more. (pun intended!)

So I could buy that, or some new speakers, hmmm.

 

[PierreV]

The problem with your experiment is that if you find that no one can tell them apart, the detractors of the experiment will say that it was because you introduced an DA step. So, in the language of science, your experiment will not allow you to reject a hypothesis, i.e. that you can tell DACs apart.

Yes, in that case, well there is a null result and people can go on discussing as usual about the reasons that led to that.
In the other case, we could learn a thing, or two.

The archimago result was essentially a non-result in terms of discrimination, even more clearly visible when he shared the comments. But that, in itself, is information.

 

[AndrovichIV]

Yes, in that case, well there is a null result and people can go on discussing as usual about the reasons that led to that.
In the other case, we could learn a thing, or two.

The archimago result was essentially a non-result in terms of discrimination, even more clearly visible when he shared the comments. But that, in itself, is information.

No, you're not getting the point. Archimago exercise was useful because there was no weird step going on such as having a DA. Thus his tested hypothesis could on theory be rejected. In this one it's not rejectable or in words of Popper, "falsifiable".

There's a difference between not being able to reject a hypothesis at a theoretical level (an impossibility) and a null result.