Circuit breaker - which to choose

[Doodski]

Replace the CB with a new suitable one determined upon your specific location and electrical code and then see what happens. Then proceed or not from there.

 

[JustJones]

the ARC never tripped... only CB.

That doesn't make sense the breaker you linked to looks like an AFCI . That is a Circuit Breaker.

 

[roxor]

That doesn't make sense the breaker you linked to looks like an AFCI . That is a Circuit Breaker.

no clue what AFCI is...

as i Said ... in the circuit there is a CB -> device i posted link to it....
when amp was turned on, only standard CB tripped, not the device i posted link to it.

 

[JustJones]

no clue what AFCI is...

as i Said ... in the circuit there is a CB -> device i posted link to it....
when amp was turned on, only standard CB tripped, not the device i posted link to it.

What type of CB ? Is it a Ground Fault CB, GFCI ? Is it an Arc Fault CB, AFCI ? Is it both a Ground and Arc Fault CB, GFCI and AFCI ? Is it neither one? I simply said if there is an Arc Fault Circuit Breaker that might explain the intermittent tripping. I think there's a translation problem here. Get a licensed electrician in your country to look at it and he/she should be able to tell you if there's a problem with the circuit.

 

[Ze Frog]

I'd just use the existing ring of sockets. There really is no perceptible noise in mains circuits at least in most countries. Sounds like you are just making hard work for yourself, spend the cash on music or something would be my advice. Or, if you really want to clean up the power, just buy a power conditioner, nothing audiophile as that will be snake oil, maybe something used for sensitive electronics like medical equipment. Even then, any difference is likely psychological.

 

[roxor]

Replace the CB with a new suitable one determined upon your specific location and electrical code and then see what happens. Then proceed or not from there.

will do it.

 

[Doodski]

will do it.

Good stuff.

 

[radix]

I'm not sure if this is @roxor's post or someone else with a tripping breaker problem. But it sounds like the same exact issue. This poster, John, said he contacted MF and originally they said to try a D curve, then took that back and asked that the unit be sent in. Liquid Mike, an authorized repair, seems to think the standard 16A CB is not the problem either.

Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 Amplifier Repair | LiQUiD AUDiO

I recently repaired and serviced this monster Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 integrated amplifier. Come take a look as we delve into the issues.

liquidaudio.com.au

 

[audio_tony]

I just called technician who is servicing Musical fidelity brand also,
he said this issue is common for such an amp or category of these amps ... he mentioned once i power on and hit the top of the sinus wave it will happen.

This makes perfect sense, and would explain why it's seemingly quite random for the breaker to trip.

A well designed soft start circuit will often incorporate 'zero crossing' detection - this will ensure that the load is always applied as the mains sine wave passes through zero volts, ensuring there is no sudden large current demand.

I would have thought that such a large power supply would incorporate this - however here in the UK with our typical ring main, the circuit is usually protected by a 32A breaker, and as such large loads like this are rarely an issue - and the amp is a UK design...

 

[RayDunzl]

My little Krells emit an interesting transformer noise for a second or two from a cold start.

If both start at the same time, they have popped the breaker, so I don't do that.

Each monoblock rated 350/700/1400W for 8/4/2 ohms, on a single 15A breaker, (along with the rest of the stuff in the rack, the desktop computer stuff, and the kitchesn overhead flourescents.

Adding together the "rated power draw" of all the gear, the breaker is way overloaded, but never had a problem playing tunes or TV, unless I add the vacuum cleaner (750W) and turn it up to listen over the vacuum (duh!)

 

[MediumRare]

Check inrush current they said in torroidial transformers it might be 60 times...

Some people refuse to accept sensible advice, especially when it’s the easiest option.

 

[roxor]

I'm not sure if this is @roxor's post or someone else with a tripping breaker problem. But it sounds like the same exact issue. This poster, John, said he contacted MF and originally they said to try a D curve, then took that back and asked that the unit be sent in. Liquid Mike, an authorized repair, seems to think the standard 16A CB is not the problem either.

Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 Amplifier Repair | LiQUiD AUDiO

I recently repaired and serviced this monster Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 integrated amplifier. Come take a look as we delve into the issues.

liquidaudio.com.au

hello, yes thats my original post.

 

[roxor]

A well designed soft start circuit will often incorporate 'zero crossing' detection

the question would be if its possible to buy such an module and plug it before my PSU.
thanks

 

[DVDdoug]

the question would be if its possible to buy such an module and plug it before my PSU.

Here is an example of a zero-crossing solid state relay

 

[radix]

the question would be if its possible to buy such an module and plug it before my PSU.
thanks

There are such devices, but none AFAIK are consumer addons. They are rather inexpensive circuit elements, so I don't know why MF would not have used them. -- maybe they did and your's is bad?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/inrush-current-limiters-icl/151

AFAIK, we only have one photo of inside the PSU, but there are other things in there besides the transformers. Without a service manual or detailed photos, I don't think one can say much about what might or might not be causing the problem.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

will do it.

That's the correct approach. While you are at it, have the earth leakage checked on your house mains.

 

[EERecordist]

Hello,
i bought new flat - in the west EU, and thinking to create separate circuit for audio only.

Is there any suggestion what CB should be good for that ie. brand, how to design its capacity ie max current, inrush current curve etc.

Thanks!

Since you own the flat, and have approval of the building association to have a licensed electrician under your local rules to modify the wiring...

There is an inexpensive tester branded Kill-a-Watt. There are competing brands that will record peak inrush current. If you run it for hours while using the load it will record the Watt-hours which you can multiply by your utility rate to determine the cost.

With the Kill-a-Watt, you will probably find your current is a fraction of the breaker size.

There are all kinds of things done in recording studios, research laboratories, and hospitals to provide extra clean power: isolation transformers like a Topaz, line filtering like an Isobar, UPS systems, running preamps off small rechargeable batteries, and earth ground designs. Those are tools backed by science, used in the electricity industry, moderately priced, are rarely necessary, and are not snake oil.

A UPS, or a solar power pack - AC or DC in > LifePO4 batteries > AC out, with a higher than your peak load output capability, will smooth out the inrush current with the batteries. But the DC > AC conversion produces a lot of noise even with a pure sine wave inverter. So I would definitely follow the power pack with a power line filter like an Isobar.

Since it is your new flat, you can map which loads are served by each breaker by turning one on at a time. Your electrician/spark will use that information to advise on options. Enjoy your new flat!

 

[voodooless]

What type of CB ? Is it a Ground Fault CB, GFCI ? Is it an Arc Fault CB, AFCI ? Is it both a Ground and Arc Fault CB, GFCI and AFCI ? Is it neither one? I simply said if there is an Arc Fault Circuit Breaker that might explain the intermittent tripping. I think there's a translation problem here. Get a licensed electrician in your country to look at it and he/she should be able to tell you if there's a problem with the circuit.

It’s a ground fault CB, so GFCI. And they are probably mandatory to have in most European countries, either in every circuit, or grouped. The one linked can be used to GFCI for groups. It will still need a circuit breaker with the appropriate current handling. You can buy combination devices though. I use those for 90% in my breaker box. Works perfectly fine.

 

[Timcognito]

It has to do with the wire gauge and the building code, that's it. Any competent and bonded electrician in your area will know what to do after assessing your building. Now protecting your gear with something between the mains and it, there are many after market options that do not involve more than plugging them in..

 

[roxor]

AFAIK, we only have one photo of inside the PSU, but there are other things in there besides the transformers. Without a service manual or detailed photos, I don't think one can say much about what might or might not be causing the problem.

i have somewhere detailed schemas of the internals. once i find it will share.