Lack of high-end speaker reviews

[Mnyb]

I have a full set of DSP5200 LCR and some DSP3100 as rears .

They migth have been something to behold 20 years ago , but they have only been some kind of upgrades to these old designs the last decades and not much news .

Meridian did a major effort to develop a complete digital home theater in the late 90’s early 2000’s

And it was truly digital with thier processors sending hires digital signals to each speaker via a proprietary protocol and cables and the speakers has digital crossovers it was the only system on the market that could take DVDA disc and and do all the processing digitally and send that 24/96 to the speakers .

And then hdmi happens and a rapid revolution of formats etc .

Thier idea was brilliant at the time , but history has left them behind I feel .

Also even if the architecture of thier system is the correct one , fully digital from source to crossovers the signal only becomes analog when it’s time to drive a specific driver in the speaker.

But

* It s proprietary you can only use thier processors and speakers .
* even if the speakers are betifully made the acoustic engineering is not up to what’s done today .

Proprietary and hand made in Britain in small quantities means they get expensive fast .

Wonder how they survived ? They sold some IP to Dolby the True HD sound format on blue ray or what it’s called is really from MLP that was used on DVDA and developed by Meridian .

I speculate that a modern revel or kef or Genelec would win on KO over my speakers, but I thought they where cool when I’ve got them they are still in working condition and has never failed so build quality is quite good.

 

[Mnyb]

Oh I forgot Meridian had room correction even back then in thier processors you had program to setup and tune the system on you PC and you got curves to look at after the measurement and a lot of flexibility. You connected the measurement mic to the processors and had a serial cable to fetch the data .

 

[gsp1971]

Due to the nature of ASR and how it obtains products for review, it is understandable that Amir, et al don’t receive very expensive speakers for review, either from owners or manufacturers.

Therefore do we think that the ASR database of reviews is not representative enough of the loudspeaker performance landscape?

Are there some examples out there of truly exceptionally well engineered (and measuring) speakers that are in the >$100k category?

I have been thinking about this for a while as well.

Not necessarily regarding products in the >$100k category, after all I imagine that not many ASR forum members have that kind of money to spend.

But I have been wondering why more modestly priced products from certain mainstream audio manufacturers do not feature here in ASR.

Examples:

Speakers

• ATC
• Audio Physic
• Dali
• Epos
• Focal
• Monitor Audio
• Neat Acoustics
• PMC
• Paradigm
• ProAc
• Sonus Faber

Electronics

• Arcam
• Atoll
• Audiolab
• Cambridge Audio
• Copland
• Creek
• Densen
• Electrocompaniet
• Exposure
• Hegel
• McIntosh
• Musical Fidelity
• Naim
• Primare
• Rega
• Roksan
• Rotel
• Simaudio

I would be very curious to see how an entry/mid level Sonus Faber speaker measures for example, since Sonus Faber speakers are very highly rated (and desired) in Europe.

Same goes for electronics from Scandinavian manufactureres, i.e. Copland, Densen, Electrocompaniet, Hegel, Primare, that have always been slightly more expensive than their other European counterparts.

Is it because many of these products are from European manufacturers and don't get much coverage in the US?

Other reasons?

GS

 

[terryforsythe]

Due to the nature of ASR and how it obtains products for review, it is understandable that Amir, et al don’t receive very expensive speakers for review, either from owners or manufacturers.

Therefore do we think that the ASR database of reviews is not representative enough of the loudspeaker performance landscape?

If there are speakers you, or anybody else, is interested, why not contact the manufacturer and request that they coordinate with Amir to send a pair for review? The more reviews in the ASR database, the better in my opinion.

However, the question becomes whether manufacturers of extremely expensive speakers will be inclined to send the speakers to ASR for review. There are two reasons I can envision as to why they won't: 1) How many people who are willing to spend that kind of money on speakers follow ASR? I suspect not too many. 2) Amir's reviews are honest and blunt. If a speaker does not provide performance on par with its price, Amir won't shy away from stating that.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Now is the time to fix that with the $375K Magico M7

 

[gsp1971]

If there are speakers you, or anybody else, is interested, why not contact the manufacturer and request that they coordinate with Amir to send a pair for review? The more reviews in the ASR database, the better in my opinion.

However, the question becomes whether manufacturers of extremely expensive speakers will be inclined to send the speakers to ASR for review. There are two reasons I can envision as to why they won't: 1) How many people who are willing to spend that kind of money on speakers follow ASR? I suspect not too many. 2) Amir's reviews are honest and blunt. If a speaker does not provide performance on par with its price, Amir won't shy away from stating that.

I suspect established manufacturers won't bother sending stuff to ASR.

But ASR members? Is it just about ASR growing larger over time? More members, more products?

 

[DVDdoug]

Has Amir ever refused to measure a speaker that someone has sent him? He'd probably be happy to measure a $100K speaker. I don't expect him to buy a bunch of stuff just to test (although occasionally he does) and I'm not sure if he requests to borrow specific items from manufacturers. He just has a general request for people (and manufacturers) to send/loan equipment for testing.

Any manufacturer can send him a speaker but they are unlikely do that if they haven't already measured the speaker themselves (and seen good results). They might be disappointed and embarrassed. On the other hand, Stereophile, or any other audio publications, almost never publishes a negative review so it's always beneficial to get a product reviewed. I'm not sure how many high-end, small-quantity, manufacturers have the equipment to do a spinorama. Even most higher-quantity manufactures probably don't have the in-house capability. If they are doing it, they almost never publish the results. (And almost nobody has an anechoic chamber.)

 

[Prana Ferox]

Larger speakers don't get reviewed much here as our host says they are too heavy to move around.

Also they're an enormous and expensive pain in the ass to ship back and forth.

 

[Platypus20]

I have never any Meridian speakers, but they did have my Meridian 508-24 cd unit more than I did, it went back 5 times

 

[Timcognito]

Due to the nature of ASR and how it obtains products for review, it is understandable that Amir, et al don’t receive very expensive speakers for review, either from owners or manufacturers.

Therefore do we think that the ASR database of reviews is not representative enough of the loudspeaker performance landscape?

Are there some examples out there of truly exceptionally well engineered (and measuring) speakers that are in the >$100k category?

As a former employee of Meridian Audio in the UK I spent a lot of time listening to their flagship speakers at the time, the DSP8000SE (circa $100k/pair I believe). The company’s design goals were always for reproduction accuracy. Whilst not my favourite speaker of all time the 8000SE are hugely impressive and sound very lifelike.

It’s so unlikely we’ll ever see a spin of this product, we could be missing out on seeing what extreme engineering can deliver, measurement-wise. And of course, maybe they don’t measure very well.

We will never know.

Without sounding "in your face" why not take your experienced career trained ears out to shops and listen to sub $6000 Genelec, Neuman, Elac or KEF and see how they compare. Did Meridian use any measuring like Klipple in their designs?

 

[fpitas]

Now is the time to fix that with the $375K Magico M7View attachment 340139

Get them in a box and send them to Amir!

 

[Pearljam5000]

I doubt many people seriously looking at those types of speakers are interested in pages of graphs. Or the endless discussion afterwards. We did see data about Magicos, and they were very good. Unfortunately, we also have seen lots of bad examples in the Worst Measuring Speakers thread.

Realistically I assume 10% of ASR members (or less ?)
can even afford $100K-$300K speakers
So not very relevant to us .

 

[Pearljam5000]

Get them in a box and send them to Amir!

I'm waiting for a Black Friday deal on them

 

[fpitas]

Realistically I assume 10% of ASR members (or less ?)
can even afford $100K-$300K speakers
So not very relevant to us .

That's selfish of you

 

[JustJones]

Get them in a box and send them to Amir!

Might be cheaper to do it the other way around. Send the klippel and Amir.

 

[Timcognito]

Why are suppliers of $100k speakers presenting the Klipple data in the sales literature? Maybe because they are not selling audio accuracy but instead prestige.

 

[Salt]

like Klipple

Appreciate reversed Denglish

 

[RayDunzl]

Send the klippel

I think it is bolted to the floor in the basement/garage, and not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Salt]

Mybe send to Klippel?
And there are some more Klippel around here in europe

 

[Penelinfi]

I'm waiting for a Black Friday deal on them

There were some Focal on discount at a hifi shop
Save $135,000!
Looks at price
Still $365,000