$20k for dream 2.0 or 2.1 rig

[boXem]

To add to the list of things to listen before buying:
Kii Three
Grimm LS1

 

[Curvature]

In a space like that you would likely be well served by a pair of bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer and you can get effectively "perfect" performance for well under $20k. The recently released Neumann KH120ii is basically ruler-flat from 60hz to 20kHz, and has built in DSP/room correction. Pair it with the Neumann sub and you're set. Or go with the KH150s, which will give you dead flat response down to 45Hz - low enough that you don't even need a sub for lots of music, but you can still add a sub to fill out the bottom octave.

If you want to forgo the sub and have true full-range speakers, look at the KH420, which are about $10k a pair. IMO they're overkill for that space but you can't do better.

[edit] These are all powered speakers, so you just need a preamp and you're good to go.

This is good advice, generally.

There's one specific aspect that I want to point you towards that should modify decision-making: directivity. The major difference between large and small speakers is not just low-end extension and higher max SPL, but MF directivity control.

Using the -6dB contour, KH150 loses it at 800hz, KH120II at 1kHz, KH80 at just over 1.1kHz. The KH420? ~400Hz.

 

[AudioJester]

And also:

Typical audiophile nonsense

Not to mention they look hideous.

Lots of great options in this thread. I will add one - great sound and aestheticlly pleasing (understanding looks are personal choice).

Superwax Mini - Active loudspeaker — Pitt & Giblin

www.pittandgiblin.com.au

 

[JustJones]

Little more information would be useful. Location, is it a dedicated room? Not many people can fit 2 or more subs in a living space 3m x 4m.

 

[Curvature]

Not to mention they look hideous.

Lots of great options in this thread. I will add one - great sound and aestheticlly pleasing (understanding looks are personal choice).

Superwax Mini - Active loudspeaker — Pitt & Giblin

www.pittandgiblin.com.au

Wonderful waveguide... but terrible diffracting edges. Such a contradiction.

For a very similar design try the S360:https://www.genelec.com/s360a

 

[Curvature]

And also:

Typical audiophile nonsense

Professional nonsense in this case, given the market.

 

[12Many]

although regarded more as a furniture grade cabinet maker.

In the past I had some had some stand mounts SF which I enjoyed. I wanted something less warm for my current system. My buddy owns the Olympic Nova floor standers and I have listed to them for many hours. Very nice with the type of music he likes and his room. Good luck with your decision.

 

[mad]

As I look into the Genelec and Neumann offerings, I wonder if they all show a similar frequency range and response, why would you pick one brand over another. A well measuring speaker is a well measuring speaker, right?

The Ones look tantalizing. What's not clear is how the volume pot would function from a streaming device. For example the 8361 would best be connected purely digitally. What would that connection chain look like?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

As I look into the Genelec and Neumann offerings, I wonder if they all show a similar frequency range and response, why would you pick one brand over another. A well measuring speaker is a well measuring speaker, right?

The Ones look tantalizing. What's not clear is how the volume pot would function from a streaming device. For example the 8361 would best be connected purely digitally. What would that connection chain look like?

You would control volume either digitally on the streamer side or on the DAC side, whereas DACs also sometimes have analogue volume controls. Most simple setup is combined Streamer/DAC incl. Volumecontrol and then straight via XLR cables to the active speakers (being it Genelec or Neumann).

Both Neumann and Genelec are very good - you can probably decide by looks, budget. Both offer digital room correction (Neumann MA1 with KH80, KH120ii, KH150 or KH750). Genelec´s room corrections appears to be more userfriendly, however I never had problems with my MA1 (especially as you only use it once or very seldom).

 

[mad]

You would control volume either digitally on the streamer side or on the DAC side, whereas DACs also sometimes have analogue volume controls. Most simple setup is combined Streamer/DAC incl. Volumecontrol and then straight via XLR cables to the active speakers (being it Genelec or Neumann).

Both Neumann and Genelec are very good - you can probably decide by looks, budget. Both offer digital room correction (Neumann MA1 with KH80, KH120ii, KH150 or KH750). Genelec´s room corrections appears to be more userfriendly, however I never had problems with my MA1 (especially as you only use it once or very seldom).

I enjoy the look of Genelec and the Neumanns too, but wonder if the former commands a worthwhile premium. I am sold on built in amplification.

 

[dfuller]

A well measuring speaker is a well measuring speaker, right?

Yes and no - Genelecs and Neumanns sound substantially different from one another, despite their seeming similarities. Genelecs trend a little brighter and the bottom end IME is not nearly so defined, where Neumanns are a little darker and are generally quite defined on the bottom end - LF impulses like kick drums are much more distinct. Not sure quite why this is, my guess is GD is lower on the Neumanns?

 

[kemmler3D]

I wonder if they all show a similar frequency range and response, why would you pick one brand over another.

Maximum SPL, distortion, and directivity can still vary even with identical on-axis FR, so you might prefer one over the other on that basis. And looks / form factor, of course. To @dfuller's point the phase response can also be different, although in this group of speakers they're all going to be pretty tight.

For my part, if I had $20K to spend on a bookshelf setup it would be the D&D 8C, (or the genelecs or neumanns, still good) at least 3 subs, and then a processor that can do Dirac ART. You should end up with basically perfect bass in-room that way.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Yes and no - Genelecs and Neumanns sound substantially different from one another, despite their seeming similarities. Genelecs trend a little brighter and the bottom end IME is not nearly so defined, where Neumanns are a little darker and are generally quite defined on the bottom end - LF impulses like kick drums are much more distinct. Not sure quite why this is, my guess is GD is lower on the Neumanns?

You just nailed the differences between them
It's exactly what I've heard.
And I'm always attacked when I say they sound completely different , so it's great you said it .

 

[Times]

After all the other active cardioid speakers have been mentioned already, I‘d like to add the Mesanovic CDM65 as another option.

The additional Stereo Hub or the new miniDSP Flex HT, which will also support WISA wireless audio standard, would be relatively cheap pre-amp options, for a total of under 7.000$.

Combining it with an Eversolo DMP-A8 (or even A6 if it gets the DSP firmware upgrade) would also be nice imho - and inexpensive as well.

Or going all in with a Trinnov Amethyst or Marantz AV10?

Thank god I don’t have the money to spare atm, I would be hell for me to decide with all these great options…

 

[Schollaudio]

Certianly spend a minute or two looking at JBL and ATC.

 

[dfuller]

OP, I'd sooner recommend the D&D 8C over almost anything else in that price range.

 

[mad]

OP, I'd sooner recommend the D&D 8C over almost anything else in that price range.

This seems to be the ticket. Look great too

 

[Curvature]

Yes and no - Genelecs and Neumanns sound substantially different from one another, despite their seeming similarities. Genelecs trend a little brighter and the bottom end IME is not nearly so defined, where Neumanns are a little darker and are generally quite defined on the bottom end - LF impulses like kick drums are much more distinct. Not sure quite why this is, my guess is GD is lower on the Neumanns?

Directivity differences.

I doubt any LF comparisons make sense given rooms effects. MF sure, HF definitely, but LF, no.

 

[thewas]

And I'm always attacked when I say they sound completely different , so it's great you said it .

Have you compared them directly in the same position, SPL, settings and comparing similarly sized models?

When listening to below recordings would you also say they sound completely different?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Have you compared them directly in the same position, SPL, settings and comparing similarly sized models?

When listening to below recordings would you also say they sound completely different?

In this video they don't sound at all like they sound in real life.
Haven't compared them in the same conditions
But after auditioning a number of Genelecs and owning the KH120 for a while I'm pretty sure I know enough about how they really sound.