Blind test listening results by professional audio engineers in the Los Angeles area

[radix]

Or he could have spent 4 minutes showing the "audio illusion" video on the McGurk effect.

 

[sq225917]

It takes a bold listener to state they can hear no difference

 

[Chrispy]

It takes a bold listener to state they can hear no difference

Eh?

 

[MattHooper]

Anyone (here at least) could see this one coming from a mile away. Zero surprise. Being a professional doesn't shield someone from bias effects.

 

[Chrispy]

Now we need the test where it's an LED trigger or a clicker trigger

 

[Liya]

Exhibit A. It helps if you bore everyone to test while spouting nonsense.

I'm not sure who is worse: Andrew Robinson or Hans.

 

[restorer-john]

I'm not sure who is worse: Andrew Robinson or Hans.

Hans makes some good points if you can sit through the rambling presentation.

 

[amirm]

It takes a bold listener to state they can hear no difference

I have been in many such situations and I do exactly that. There is just no way to do any critical listening/comparison with an AB switch among a crowd of listeners. The only valid answer then is "I don't know." FYI I do "hear" differences in such group comparisons but I know it is totally unreliable. At audio shows companies do these types of comparisons with various audio tweaks.

 

[MattHooper]

I have been in many such situations and I do exactly that. There is just no way to do any critical listening/comparison with an AB switch among a crowd of listeners. The only valid answer then is "I don't know." FYI I do "hear" differences in such group comparisons but I know it is totally unreliable. At audio shows companies do these types of comparisons with various audio tweaks.

Aside from relying only on the power of suggestion, I'd love to see someone do a secret expose of the tricks some are doubtless using in their cable and tweak presentations at audio shows.

 

[ahofer]

And that's why blind testing gets the bad rep it has. Some clown tricking his friends attempting to be smarter by not introducing a circuit element he said he had introduced. People were trying to hear what wasn't there. What a waste of time. He lied to them and I'll bet nobody will be interested in his 'tests' ever again.

I'd have given the guy a piece of my mind and walked out- got better things to do in life.

I can see how it would be annoying, but perhaps it is still necessary. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[ahofer]

Hans makes some good points if you can sit through the rambling presentation.

Like what?

 

[ahofer]

counter-dickishness.

LOL

 

[Axo1989]

Or he could have spent 4 minutes showing the "audio illusion" video on the McGurk effect.

McGurk uses a visual cue to trigger categorical discrimination between sonically similar phonemes. Not the same thing as expectation bias if we are being at all technical/scientific.

But technical/scientific is just a mis-direct if we are telling stories for in-group jollies, then those distinctions don't matter and are ignored. More constructively, it can be a general example for a kind of loose pedagogy (but personally I find those sorts of histrionics dimwitted, whether I'm on the receiving end or expected to deliver them).

 

[ahofer]

McGurk uses a visual cue to trigger categorical discrimination between sonically similar phonemes. Not the same thing as expectation bias if we are being at all technical/scientific.

But technical/scientific is just a mis-direct if we are telling stories for in-group jollies, then those distinctions don't matter and are ignored.

Or they are both part of a larger category of phenomena where non-aural stimuli are mistaken for actual aural differences.

 

[Axo1989]

Or they are both part of a larger category of phenomena where non-aural stimuli are mistaken for actual aural differences.

Yes, I was having that thought just as you were. I think 'and' not 'or' however. For a technical audience like the group cited by the OP, you'd hope they are more demanding. But how drunk were they at that stage?

 

[kemmler3D]

I have been in many such situations and I do exactly that. There is just no way to do any critical listening/comparison with an AB switch among a crowd of listeners. The only valid answer then is "I don't know." FYI I do "hear" differences in such group comparisons but I know it is totally unreliable. At audio shows companies do these types of comparisons with various audio tweaks.

I think it's prudent to say "I don't know if I hear a difference or not" and it's bold (or maybe just difficult?) to say "I hear that there is no difference."

 

[restorer-john]

Aside from relying only on the power of suggestion, I'd love to see someone do a secret expose of the tricks some are doubtless using in their cable and tweak presentations at audio shows.

Audio shows have always been productions designed to convince people to buy. Nothing more, nothing less. It is what it is and no amount of 'critical' listening or A vs B in a cement-walled 250-300sqft hotel room of dubious dimensions is going to remotely show what a loudspeaker or system will sound like in a buyer's home.

The best sounds were always the bigger budget exhibitors who bought the larger spaces- the divided-up ballrooms. The small rooms are just too claustrophobic for me.

 

[ta240]

The entire premise of the 'test' is just dumb, and in reality proves absolutely nothing other than the guy with the LED boxes is a bit of a dick.

Imagine all that collective time wasted. Some of those guys look pretty old too...

It was a youtube stunt before youtube existed.

 

[voodooless]

No.
Imagine if I had arranged the test! those engineers, would not trust me, would not assume anything, and most probably told me to get lost.
The test worked, because the engineers trusted their friend, and his integrity, accepted it was a real test.
Imagine if Amir, had arranged a similar test and his marks were ASR devotees, they probably fall into the same trap. Equally if the guy from PS Audio does the same thing, most ASR members would catch him out.
The trust of the marks, was necessary for this test to produce its false results.

Sorry, your still making my point for me

 

[JSmith]

How good are the golden ears?

Clearly generally the same as everyone... it helps if people are trained listeners, not "golden ears".

Welcome to How to Listen!

Overview How to Listen is a desktop software application developed by the Harman Internationa l R&D group for the purpose of training an...

harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com

... but clearly in this case, that wouldn't have helped either!


JSmith