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Is it audiophoolia to care about SINAD differences which have no correlation in blind listening tests? H2/H3 distortion 'enriches the sound'?

Galliardist

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There is caring that is supportive and caring that is combative. I’m all for the first type
Caring that is combative is also the basis under which social progress has been made in our societies. I'd like to expand on that thought, but it becomes politics which we don't do here.
 

Justdafactsmaam

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Caring that is combative is also the basis under which social progress has been made in our societies. I'd like to expand on that thought, but it becomes politics which we don't do here.
Skip the politics. How does that apply to caring about audiophiles who have a SINAD fetish or audiophiles who don’t worry about SINAD as much as they care about features?

Some combative caring is a positive force. Some is just childish pissing contests
 

Cbdb2

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All other things equal who would buy the gear with worst sinad? But for me, at a certain point, not that low, distortion and noise don't matter, function, cost, power for amps, build quality are more important. We live in a time where all these can be had for a fraction of the price they used to be. I don't understand why people will spend over a $1000 for a dac when there are $200 ones that do the same thing and they couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.
 

Justdafactsmaam

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I don't understand why people will spend over a $1000 for a dac when there are $200 ones that do the same thing and they couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.
I can explain that! Anytime someone sets up a comparison that isn’t time synchronized, quick switching, level matched and bias controlled it’s going to result in hearing differences that are not there. But those differences will seem real and substantial. And that is why people pay for it. They genuinely believe it and unless they know the inherent problems with comparisons that aren’t as described above there is nothing intuition or common sense will tell them such problems exist.

Bad audition protocols lead to very potent experiences. Forget $1,000.00 DACs. You have people buying $30,000.00+ DACs because of the potency of such flawed auditions.

And once someone falls into that rabbit hole, joins that tribe and becomes heavily invested financially and emotionally in that belief system it’s really hard to escape.
 

Galliardist

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All other things equal who would buy the gear with worst sinad?
Actually, it takes a hell of a lot to make all other things equal.
And as a subjectivist, I see no reason why somebody who likes gear with poor SINAD that does in fact alter the sound (vinyl, anybody?) shouldn't own it. Never mind objectivism, it isn't my subjective preference (though I may enjoy listening to good music on such a system if it happens).

The problem isn't subjective preference. The problem is being dishonest about where subjective preference comes from, or exploiting it for extreme financial benefit.
 
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BobbyTimmons

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A lot more people than the number of audiophiles who own Genelec or Revell speakers, the darlings of ASR. Personally I see no point to an appeal to popularity. Especially on an audiophile forum. We are all in a niche market within a niche market. The dude is more interested in having a phono stage than having 120 SINAD. I’m not seeing a problem there. Fortunately there is no shortage of sensible cost effective phono stages on the market. You will both get through this unscathed
Oftentimes Revel speakers have measurements in their frequency response and some other things that correlate to average listener preferences in blind listening tests. Genelec are tools for music production, their flat frequency response is part of their fit for purpose as a tool.

There isn't evidence I'm aware of showing listeners choose DACs and amps with 0.0001% THD+N over 0.01% in blind listening tests. There isn't evidence the highest SINAD measuring Topping amps and DACs would sound better than the 0.01% measuring Denons in blind listening tests if they could even be differentiated in a typical home set-up. There might be a demand for unusually low THD+N among some in the audiophile market, just the audiophile market is the audiophile market. It doesn't always demonstrate perfectly rational thought processes.
 
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Justdafactsmaam

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Oftentimes Revel speakers have measurements in their frequency response and some other things that correlate to average listener preferences in blind listening tests. Genelec are tools for music production, their flat frequency response is part of their fit for purpose as a tool.

There isn't evidence I'm aware of showing listeners choose DACs and amps with 0.0001% THD+N over 0.01% in blind listening tests. There isn't evidence the highest SINAD measuring Topping amps and DACs would sound better than the 0.01% measuring Denons in blind listening tests if they could even be differentiated in a typical home set-up. There might be a demand for unusually low THD+N among some in the audiophile market, just the audiophile market is the audiophile market. It doesn't always demonstrate perfectly rational thought processes.
What do popularity and rationality have to do with each other?
 
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