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Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

SSA

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I have a SHD running biamped mains a 2x4HD running dual subwoofers. The subwoofers are connected via a single RCA from the SHD to the 2x4HD and then single RCAs to the LFE of the subwoofer. The SHD and the 2x4HD are set up on seperate computers as advised by MiniDSP. I have run DIRAC on PC1/SHD set up but was unable isolate the subwoofers because the SHD interface only controls the 4 outputs to the mains.

How am I meant to isolate the subwoofers? Should I be running DIRAC on PC2/2x4HD just for the subwoofers and then running DIRAC on PC1/SHD for the speakers and subwoofers together? That would mean I have DIRAC on both the 2x4HD and SHD which seems wrong.

I'm hoping the solution will also enable me to run REW because I of course encountered the same issues.

I'm a bit confused as you can tell so any help appreciated!
 

radix

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I have a SHD running biamped mains a 2x4HD running dual subwoofers. The subwoofers are connected via a single RCA from the SHD to the 2x4HD and then single RCAs to the LFE of the subwoofer. The SHD and the 2x4HD are set up on seperate computers as advised by MiniDSP. I have run DIRAC on PC1/SHD set up but was unable isolate the subwoofers because the SHD interface only controls the 4 outputs to the mains.

How am I meant to isolate the subwoofers? Should I be running DIRAC on PC2/2x4HD just for the subwoofers and then running DIRAC on PC1/SHD for the speakers and subwoofers together? That would mean I have DIRAC on both the 2x4HD and SHD which seems wrong.

I'm hoping the solution will also enable me to run REW because I of course encountered the same issues.

I'm a bit confused as you can tell so any help appreciated!
A Flex 8 would be a better solution, as that's 2x8 with Dirac.

I'm not clear on how you have 2 PCs in the game. You only have 1 source and would need to Y connect or daisy chain them. But I've never tried something like this. You'd likely have clocking issues.

You would have 2 separate instances of DIRAC and they would be configured separately. You will not get automatic time alignment, I don't think. You do have separate crossovers, so you can do your high/mid, bass, and sub separately. You'd likely run dirac on the SHD first, get that settled with crossovers and a high pass filter, then do the 2x4HD next leaving the SHD fixed. I'm not sure how well that would work.
 

SSA

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I have a PC to run the my video/audio and set up the SHD. I have a laptop to set up the 2x4HD which is then disconnected. MiniDSP advise you not to set up two MiniDSP products on a single PC so I know that part is correct.

Thanks I assume that might be the case but not ideal for a novice, I won't really know what I am looking for but perhaps will have to learn/seek more advice as I go :)
 

radix

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I have a PC to run the my video/audio and set up the SHD. I have a laptop to set up the 2x4HD which is then disconnected. MiniDSP advise you not to set up two MiniDSP products on a single PC so I know that part is correct.

Thanks I assume that might be the case but not ideal for a novice, I won't really know what I am looking for but perhaps will have to learn/seek more advice as I go :)
As you are driving the system from a PC, you might be better with a software convolver and a 6-8 channel USB DAC. Something like Audiolense or Acourate or CamillaDSP.

If using the minidsp products, you can likely use a splitter on digital coax with modest cable lengths and sane sampling rates. A better solution would be a 75-ohm coax splitter, but you'd need to make your own cables for that (this would match impedance and reduce reflections). But a simple Y cable would likely work. I've heard there are active toslink splitters, but never used one.

I've also heard that when using multiple DACs, one usually wants to use the exact same model so the processing delays are similar. I'm not sure how cockeyed the shd vs 2x4hd will be.
 

SSA

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The amp connections are balanced XLRs so a flex wouldn’t be suitable but understand the point. I’d prefer to find a workaround than replace equipment. My set up does sound pretty good but I know it can be improved with some room correction and better sub integration. I could just use DIRAC but was hopeful to be able to use REW and fine tune further.

Hopefully there are some other workaround that others could suggest.

I don’t understand why the SHD can’t ‘see’/ isolate the 2x4HD/subs. There is a direct connection between them via RCA. Why is that any different to the connections going to the amps/mains via XLR. I was surprised this was the case and it seems a major flaw.

I did read that others have the SHD and 2x4HD connected via toslink so maybe that would be better?
 

radix

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The amp connections are balanced XLRs so a flex wouldn’t be suitable but understand the point. I’d prefer to find a workaround than replace equipment. My set up does sound pretty good but I know it can be improved with some room correction and better sub integration. I could just use DIRAC but was hopeful to be able to use REW and fine tune further.

Hopefully there are some other workaround that others could suggest.

I don’t understand why the SHD can’t ‘see’/ isolate the 2x4HD/subs. There is a direct connection between them via RCA. Why is that any different to the connections going to the amps/mains via XLR. I was surprised this was the case and it seems a major flaw.

I did read that others have the SHD and 2x4HD connected via toslink so maybe that would be better?
The flex does have a balanced version. It uses 1/4" TRS connections, not XLR, but it's a standard cable for TRS to XLR male. But I understand not wanting to buy new gear.

So to be clear, you have PC -> [USB] -> SHD, then SHD analog 1&2 (or 3&4) -> 2x4 HD, and you also have SHD XLR 1,2 -> amp1 and SHD XLR 3,4 -> amp2, 2x4 HD RCA -> amp3?

I assume you have something like AMP1 driving the high/mids on speaker 1 and AMP2 driving the high/mids on speaker 2, then AMP3 is your subs. Are you bi-amping speakers or did you remove the build-in crossovers?

Because the SHD outputs are after the crossover and correction, you need to make sure the crossovers are passing whatever you need on the 2x4. The 2x4 would then need to apply its own crossover and undo whatever correction the SHD DIRAC did. You will also have timing problems, because there's no way to recover phase alignment. The 2x4HD is going to introduce its own delay after the SHD delay.

The 1&2&3&4 outputs on the SHD are AFTER the crossover and DIRAC, so you would be feeding the 2x4HD from the corrected SHD output, not the raw inputs. You either want to use PC usb -> digital coax (spdif) to feed the SHD and Y cable it to the 2x4 HD directly form the PC (e.g. Y cable coax, then coax -> toslink converter, or toslink from PC with a toslink splitter). That way you get raw signal to both units. Toslink might prevent some ground issues.

To summarize, I'd do it as USB -> toslink converter -> toslink splitter -> {SHD, 2x4HD}, and then manage them separately. I'd likely do the high/mids first (I assume on the SHD) and not correct for the 2x4HD frequencies, then do the 2x4HD and only correct up to your crossover frequencies. Remember you need to set all the crossovers first in the minidsp software, then run dirac. You might still have some timing problems with the subs as the 2x4HD and SHD will not run at the same speeds, but because everthing is parallel, you can likely correct that delay.
 

radix

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I have a SHD running biamped mains a 2x4HD running dual subwoofers. The subwoofers are connected via a single RCA from the SHD to the 2x4HD and then single RCAs to the LFE of the subwoofer. The SHD and the 2x4HD are set up on seperate computers as advised by MiniDSP. I have run DIRAC on PC1/SHD set up but was unable isolate the subwoofers because the SHD interface only controls the 4 outputs to the mains.
Let me try answering this a different way. Biamping with the speaker crossovers in place probably is not buying you much. You need to match the active crossover frequencies to the speaker frequencies.

Have you tried doing bridged mono on the amps and not biamping? You'll get a lot more power. Then a 2x4 mixer would be just fine. This is what I do on my main system.
 

SSA

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Yes pretty much but I am only using 1 analog from the SHD to 2x4HD which is then outputted to each sub, as below:

PC -> [USB] -> SHD, then SHD analog 1 [RCA] -> 2x4 HD, then 2X4 HD analog 1&2 -> subs [RCA]
SHD XLR 1,2 -> amp1 and SHD XLR 3,4 -> amp2

I am using "vertical" biamping i.e. one amp drives both the mid/bass and lows of each speaker. I read this was preferred over "horizontal" biamping as the highs don't need much power.

The subs are active.

I have set a low pass filter and a high pass filter on the mains. I have also set a low pass filter on the subs via the 2x4HD interface. I do not believe the filters I've set on the SHD are sent from the SHD analog output to the 2X4HD hence why I set them on the 2x4 HD interface. I think for this reason the TOSLINK option is not needed. I am getting the raw signal to the 2x4HD.

What I haven't tried yet is to run DIRAC on the laptop/2x4HD for the subs (while muting the SHD mains). The reason being I thought there would be a better option but perhaps not... its simply not possible for SHD to control the 2x4HD/subs directly.

Thanks for your replies!
 

SSA

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To add, I have to use the analog outputs as the subs do not have XLR connections, so there would be no benefit to using one amp although I know one amp could easily run both speakers to thier potential.
 

radix

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Yes pretty much but I am only using 1 analog from the SHD to 2x4HD which is then outputted to each sub, as below:

PC -> [USB] -> SHD, then SHD analog 1 [RCA] -> 2x4 HD, then 2X4 HD analog 1&2 -> subs [RCA]
SHD XLR 1,2 -> amp1 and SHD XLR 3,4 -> amp2

I am using "vertical" biamping i.e. one amp drives both the mid/bass and lows of each speaker. I read this was preferred over "horizontal" biamping as the highs don't need much power.

The subs are active.

I have set a low pass filter and a high pass filter on the mains. I have also set a low pass filter on the subs via the 2x4HD interface. I do not believe the filters I've set on the SHD are sent from the SHD analog output to the 2X4HD hence why I set them on the 2x4 HD interface. I think for this reason the TOSLINK option is not needed. I am getting the raw signal to the 2x4HD.

What I haven't tried yet is to run DIRAC on the laptop/2x4HD for the subs (while muting the SHD mains). The reason being I thought there would be a better option but perhaps not... its simply not possible for SHD to control the 2x4HD/subs directly.

Thanks for your replies!

The SHD only has 4 outputs. The XLR and RCA are identical (apart from the obvious electrical difference). So, whatever high/low pass filter you have on output 1 affects both the XLR and RCA outputs. Also, whatever DIRAC correction you have on output 1 affects both the XLR and RCA outputs.

I think vertical biamp is better than horizontal, as you get less crosstalk. Personally, I do not think biamping with speaker crossovers in place is very useful (there's been many threads on this here). I prefer to do bridged mono amps for each speaker. On an SHD (or any 2x4 mixer), you can then set the crossover between speaker and sub wherever you want it (e.g. 80 Hz). This is how the SHD and 2x4HD were intended for use in a 2.2 system.

There are some speakers that use a 2x4 per speaker for electronic crossover. In that case, they usually take an analog line level input, though one could do a digital input too.

Have you used REW to measure the results? You should validate the configuration with REW and your UMIK. I suspect you will see a phase problem with the subs.
 

chilledbeams

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i've read most of the thread and there is not much on sound quality of this unit. has anyone compared it to Nad c658, naim atom he or mytek brooklyn bridge amd could advise how this unit stacks up?
 

EJ3

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i've read most of the thread and there is not much on sound quality of this unit. has anyone compared it to Nad c658, naim atom he or mytek brooklyn bridge amd could advise how this unit stacks up?
Hopefully the result is "it has no identifiable sound of it's own".
 

nothingman

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Ok, but what about soundstage, instrument separation, details, etc?

:rolleyes:

In the most polite way possible, this isn’t that kind of forum.

Poke around and read some pinned threads and tutorials and a lot more measurement reviews and decide if you’re on board. If so, great! If not, no big deal. There are no shortage of forums and review sites for subjective thoughts.
 
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Hi, I was just wondering, the updated version, is that a hardware update or a software update? If it's software, does it just require a firmware update and that fixes the original flaws? How do you update the Mini-DSP? When directly connected to a PC or you need to flash it with a USB?
Thanks.
 

tw99

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Hi, I was just wondering, the updated version, is that a hardware update or a software update? If it's software, does it just require a firmware update and that fixes the original flaws? How do you update the Mini-DSP? When directly connected to a PC or you need to flash it with a USB?
Thanks.

I think there are at least 3 different hardware revisions of the SHD, but they don't really have any identifying marks on the outside. Updating the software on them just requires connecting to a PC, and using the MiniDSP software to connect to the device, and perform any upgrades.
 

sky-watsher

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Hi Everyone,
Great little (full width) device with great set of functionalities.
I have a question regarding the Analog outputs, out of everything i read it shows that they are Variable, which means volume control needs to be operated through the SHD, with the latest iteration is there a way to switch it to Fixed ?
The reason i'm asking is that i'm building my (hopefully) end-game system, and i have decided (and purchased) the Luxman l-590axii (the class A one) which has XLR inputs but also one of the best Volume attenuators, which i want to take advantage of.
Obviously if i had to choose between the 2 (the capabilities/Dirac/flexibility and the volume control of the Luxman), i would sacrifice the volume control, as ive (and still am) experienced the magics of room correction with my Lyngdorf TDAi 1120, and i'm a believer it really enhances the sound of a system (provided your raw room sound is good enough !).

I can't seem to find an alternative to this marvelous SHD, (4 outputs, XLR,mini-DSP software, Dirac live, roon readiness,...) in one box (NAD integrated with NAD do not have XLRs and no 4 independent outputs...) with fixed volume, but happy to hear from you guys.

Thanks
 

MCH

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@sky-watsher before pulling the trigger on this, have a look at the new minidsp flex HTx (the x is important). I have the feeling the shd is becoming an obsolete product.
 

sky-watsher

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@sky-watsher before pulling the trigger on this, have a look at the new minidsp flex HTx (the x is important). I have the feeling the shd is becoming an obsolete product.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm intending to use this as a pure 2Ch (+sub) setup, so the streaming capabilities (mainly roon Readiness) of the SHD is mandatory box to tick for me.
This HTx could definitely be good for tuning a 5.1 setup, but with absence of bitstream multichannel, i don't see this one catching fire; most HT setups with high count of channels are indulging in Atmos and DTS (i could be wrong, but that's what i enjoy on my 7.1.6 setup)
 
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MCH

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Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm intending to use this as a pure 2Ch (+sub) setup, so the streaming capabilities (mainly roon Readiness) of the SHD is mandatory box to tick for me.
This HTx could definitely be good for tuning a 5.1 setup, but with absence of bitstream multichannel, i don't see this one catching fire; most HT setups with high count of channels are indulging in Atmos and DTS (i could be wrong, but that's what i enjoy on my 7.1.6 setup)
You are correct, I tend to disregard the streaming capabilities of the shd.
 
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