Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

[Stoutblock]

Hi Everyone,
Great little (full width) device with great set of functionalities.
I have a question regarding the Analog outputs, out of everything i read it shows that they are Variable, which means volume control needs to be operated through the SHD, with the latest iteration is there a way to switch it to Fixed ?
The reason i'm asking is that i'm building my (hopefully) end-game system, and i have decided (and purchased) the Luxman l-590axii (the class A one) which has XLR inputs but also one of the best Volume attenuators, which i want to take advantage of.
Obviously if i had to choose between the 2 (the capabilities/Dirac/flexibility and the volume control of the Luxman), i would sacrifice the volume control, as ive (and still am) experienced the magics of room correction with my Lyngdorf TDAi 1120, and i'm a believer it really enhances the sound of a system (provided your raw room sound is good enough !).

I can't seem to find an alternative to this marvelous SHD, (4 outputs, XLR,mini-DSP software, Dirac live, roon readiness,...) in one box (NAD integrated with NAD do not have XLRs and no 4 independent outputs...) with fixed volume, but happy to hear from you guys.

Thanks

I agree there is really nothing else out there that satisfies my system’s needs and all I need for my 2 channel system is the ADC and DSP functions of the SHD. All of my balanced XLR and SE RCA analog sources go into SHD through an external switch box then I use the SHD to source XLR or RCA input. I use the different digital inputs for my digital sources CD player, laptop for streaming AmazonHD and a music server. All sources are processed by the DSP and Dirac Live then I use the digital output of the SHD to connect to an external DAC. I don’t use the internal streamer, the internal DAC or the volume attenuation functions of the SHD. There is no way to default the output level to unity gain that I have found but just set it to 0.0dB and it stays there.

I also prefer not using the digital volume control of either the SHD or my external DAC but instead use a very high quality passive volume control on the analog signal coming out of the external DAC. This guarantees full resolution of all the digital signals (no bits dropped).

The 32bit internal processing provides excellent performance. At this level there is no degradation of my analog sources through the ADC IMHO. I do wish the SHD was able to process DSD files but thats a small issue for me.

I think the SHD is a huge bargain but a cheaper version with the same processing power, ADC and DSP but with no DAC or streamer would be ideal for me.

 

[sky-watsher]

Hey @Stoutblock I believe you omitted to add your response
Keen on reading what you intended to write.

 

[Stoutblock]

Hey @Stoutblock I believe you omitted to add your response
Keen on reading what you intended to write.

Done…

 

[sky-watsher]

I agree there is really nothing else out there that satisfies my system’s needs and all I need for my 2 channel system is the ADC and DSP functions of the SHD. All of my balanced XLR and SE RCA analog sources go into SHD through an external switch box then I use the SHD to source XLR or RCA input. I use the different digital inputs for my digital sources CD player, laptop for streaming AmazonHD and a music server. All sources are processed by the DSP and Dirac Live then I use the digital output of the SHD to connect to an external DAC. I don’t use the internal streamer, the internal DAC or the volume attenuation functions of the SHD. There is no way to default the output level to unity gain that I have found but just set it to 0.0dB and it stays there.

I have found my system performs at its best using the new SHD software upgrade that allows you attenuate the input level of the SHD prior to the ASRC. In my case this requires about -15db to guarantee no clipping from digital intersample peaks. I also prefer not using the digital volume control of either the SHD or my external DAC but instead use a very high quality passive volume control on the analog signal coming out of the external DAC. This guarantees full resolution of all the digital signals (no bits dropped).

The 32bit internal processing provides excellent performance. At this level there is no degradation of my analog sources through the ADC IMHO. I do wish the SHD was able to process DSD files but thats a small issue for me.

I think the SHD is a huge bargain but a cheaper version with the same processing power, ADC and DSP but with no DAC or streamer would be ideal for me.

Thanks for the Answer.

Is it also possible to reduce the input level for something like roon ? i would imagine if i had the device hooked through Ethernet, there willl be a setting to reduce "Ethernet" input ? what happened with Wifi ?

Thanks

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

new SHD software upgrade

When did this get released?

 

[Stoutblock]

When did this get released?

See post 1520.

UPDATE: PER POST 1549 THE LATEST REVISION DOES NOT ALLOW ATTENUATION OF INPUT.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

See post 1520.

Thanking you

 

[mdsimon2]

If you are using the latest firmware (1.1.14), the volume control is still downstream of the ASRC. We are still waiting on new firmware to revise the volume control structure.

Question for Devteam about ASRC

Hi Devteam, I think you should let us know what’s going on with the whole ASRC overhaul. I would ask in the general “announcements” section, but you...

www.minidsp.com

Michael

 

[Stoutblock]

If you are using the latest firmware (1.1.14), the volume control is still downstream of the ASRC. We are still waiting on new firmware to revise the volume control structure.

Question for Devteam about ASRC

Hi Devteam, I think you should let us know what’s going on with the whole ASRC overhaul. I would ask in the general “announcements” section, but you...

www.minidsp.com

Michael

Well darn, that will tech me to trust the experts! So the attenuation settings in the blue boxes of the output columns of device manager are output adjustments and not input adjustments???

 

[12Many]

@Stoutblock
Thanks for your posts Stout. All the numbers look good, but what are your impressions of the sound? I would be running a similar set up to you, streamer (SHD streamer or external steamer) to DAC, to amp. Two channel only. I am not using my subs right now.
Not sure of your equipment but what was your opinion of the benefits gained by the Dirac processing. Do you notice a difference? Improvement? I feel like I am fighting my room and before I go down the room treatment path, I am am looking at DSP options. Thanks.

 

[Stoutblock]

@Stoutblock
Thanks for your posts Stout. All the numbers look good, but what are your impressions of the sound? I would be running a similar set up to you, streamer (SHD streamer or external steamer) to DAC, to amp. Two channel only. I am not using my subs right now.
Not sure of your equipment but what was your opinion of the benefits gained by the Dirac processing. Do you notice a difference? Improvement? I feel like I am fighting my room and before I go down the room treatment path, I am am looking at DSP options. Thanks.

I am a firm believer in doing RTA of a room and using DSP to help correct response. With that said it’s always best to do what you can with the room physically with placing speakers and dealing with reflections and such. These choices are often compromises for several reasons and DSP almost always brings the system response performance up a couple of notches. Don’t expect DSP to fix a bad setup but it will do the best with what you have.

Phasing and timing in particular can’t be matched by any other means as well as a good room calibration with DSP IMHO.

I suppose it is possible to use REW to accomplish the same effects as Dirac Live but I know I personally don’t possess those skills. Dirac Live does a fine job! Yes you can absolutely tell the difference when you toggle the Dirac Live off and on with the remote. Second to my speakers, I think the SHD is the best tool for getting the sound I enjoy out of my system.

 

[radix]

@Stoutblock
Thanks for your posts Stout. All the numbers look good, but what are your impressions of the sound? I would be running a similar set up to you, streamer (SHD streamer or external steamer) to DAC, to amp. Two channel only. I am not using my subs right now.
Not sure of your equipment but what was your opinion of the benefits gained by the Dirac processing. Do you notice a difference? Improvement? I feel like I am fighting my room and before I go down the room treatment path, I am am looking at DSP options. Thanks.

I'd second what @Stoutblock said. The room has the biggest effect on accurate sound reproduction, followed by the speakers. Differences in amps and electronics is tiny compared to room and speaker effects. If you cannot do room treatments, or limited treatments (like rugs or drapes or more pillows), then DSP is your go-to for better sound. DSP correction is more than EQ, though EQ is your 3rd choice.

For DSP correction, you have several options. If you play from a computer, you can do it in software (e.g. Dirac, or Accourate convolver, or Camilla DSP, etc.). Otherwise, you can do it in hardware (e.g. minidsp + dirac, nad + dirac, Anthem + ARC Genesis, an AVR/AVP with Dirac or ARC or Audyssey, or Camilla DSP w/ an audio interface, and others). I think DIRAC is likely the best novice system for creating and editing filters with very good results. ARC Genesis is clunkier, but still manageable.

 

[Stoutblock]

I'd second what @Stoutblock said. The room has the biggest effect on accurate sound reproduction, followed by the speakers. Differences in amps and electronics is tiny compared to room and speaker effects. If you cannot do room treatments, or limited treatments (like rugs or drapes or more pillows), then DSP is your go-to for better sound. DSP correction is more than EQ, though EQ is your 3rd choice.

For DSP correction, you have several options. If you play from a computer, you can do it in software (e.g. Dirac, or Accourate convolver, or Camilla DSP, etc.). Otherwise, you can do it in hardware (e.g. minidsp + dirac, nad + dirac, Anthem + ARC Genesis, an AVR/AVP with Dirac or ARC or Audyssey, or Camilla DSP w/ an audio interface, and others). I think DIRAC is likely the best novice system for creating and editing filters with very good results. ARC Genesis is clunkier, but still manageable.

It is my opinion that even a great performing system, thoroughly thought out room, ideal speaker/sub placement and all the room treatment tricks can still benefit from accurate RTA with DSP corrections for phase, timing, EQ and sub integration. The software solution for DSP is certainly an option but you always need the computer running. By itself it is limited to just digital sources and all it does is DSP. With the SHD you can provide DSP for all your sources (analog and digital) and only need a computer for RTA and creating correction filters. Not to mention the SHD has a DAC and streaming capability.

 

[sky-watsher]

Hey @Stoutblock Thanks for the valuable insights.
Just want to make sure o got it right :
No attenuation per input right ? cause your screenshot says : the blue boxes are output attenuation meanwhile you mentioned input attenuation.
Also on a later post you highlighted no input attenuation with current software.

Also if i'm using roon through Wifi (with the external Dongle), what input would that be on the SHD ?

Thanks again

 

[Stoutblock]

Hey @Stoutblock Thanks for the valuable insights.
Just want to make sure o got it right :
No attenuation per input right ? cause your screenshot says : the blue boxes are output attenuation meanwhile you mentioned input attenuation.
Also on a later post you highlighted no input attenuation with current software.

Also if i'm using roon through Wifi (with the external Dongle), what input would that be on the SHD ?

Thanks again

I was mistaken in my earlier posts about the latest firmware version (1.1.14) providing volume control prior to the ASRC and I have corrected these posts. It appears this is a very common mistake also made by others. MiniDSP did provide this functionality to control volume prior to the ASRC a few months back but it appears they have now temporarily removed this function due to some isolated problems with some users? If you look at the link that mdsimon2 provided there is a discussion on the miniDSP user group on this subject. There are also discussions on this thread and elsewhere on ASR that covers the subject of intersample overs and how it is possible to cause digital clipping in certain conditions. Sigh...

I am not a user of Roon but I would recommend reading the SHD manual on the miniDSP website. The SHD is now Roon ready. I don't believe it requires a dongle but just use the Ethernet connection to a wireless router and then have the Roon app installed on a remote device? I know I don't use the internal streaming capability of the SHD and instead use AmazonHD running on a laptop and connect the laptop to the SHD with SPDIF. There are several ways to stream to the SHD with pros and cons for each. I recommend reading the manual as it is pretty good.

Now I will keep better track of these conversations over on the miniDSP site to find out when they will overall the ASRC in the SHD...

 

[sky-watsher]

I was mistaken in my earlier posts about the latest firmware version (1.1.14) providing volume control prior to the ASRC and I have corrected these posts. It appears this is a very common mistake also made by others. MiniDSP did provide this functionality to control volume prior to the ASRC a few months back but it appears they have now temporarily removed this function due to some isolated problems with some users? If you look at the link that mdsimon2 provided there is a discussion on the miniDSP user group on this subject. There are also discussions on this thread and elsewhere on ASR that covers the subject of intersample overs and how it is possible to cause digital clipping in certain conditions. Sigh...

I am not a user of Roon but I would recommend reading the SHD manual on the miniDSP website. The SHD is now Roon ready. I don't believe it requires a dongle but just use the Ethernet connection to a wireless router and then have the Roon app installed on a remote device? I know I don't use the internal streaming capability of the SHD and instead use AmazonHD running on a laptop and connect the laptop to the SHD with SPDIF. There are several ways to stream to the SHD with pros and cons for each. I recommend reading the manual as it is pretty good.

Now I will keep better track of these conversations over on the miniDSP site to find out when they will overall the ASRC in the SHD...

Thanks a mil Mate !

This is clear now.

Regarding my "roon" question, yeah i'm pretty familiar with how it works (been a roonie for a good 5 years now), my question was more of : Within the SHD, you can toggle inputs before applying DSP and Dirac etc etc (you can choose, Spdif, Coax, USB....), i was just wondering in case of roon over wifi, what "input Label" one can use in the DSP interface. (this is a question for all SHD users).

In all cases, thanks again for taking the time to read all my questions and provide answers, much appreciated.

Regards,

 

[Stoutblock]

If you are using the latest firmware (1.1.14), the volume control is still downstream of the ASRC. We are still waiting on new firmware to revise the volume control structure.

Question for Devteam about ASRC

Hi Devteam, I think you should let us know what’s going on with the whole ASRC overhaul. I would ask in the general “announcements” section, but you...

www.minidsp.com

Michael

I am running 1.1.13 so I do have volume control prior to the ASRC? I have had absolutely no problem with this version.

 

[kokoon]

Thanks a mil Mate !

This is clear now.

Regarding my "roon" question, yeah i'm pretty familiar with how it works (been a roonie for a good 5 years now), my question was more of : Within the SHD, you can toggle inputs before applying DSP and Dirac etc etc (you can choose, Spdif, Coax, USB....), i was just wondering in case of roon over wifi, what "input Label" one can use in the DSP interface. (this is a question for all SHD users).

In all cases, thanks again for taking the time to read all my questions and provide answers, much appreciated.

Regards,

It's LAN input for anything streaming - Volumio or Roon.

 

[radix]

This is from the SHD manual, in case it helps understand the audio flow. AFAIK, there's gain control until the output stage, but I have not kept up on the firmware features.

 

[Stoutblock]

This is from the SHD manual, in case it helps understand the audio flow. AFAIK, there's gain control until the output stage, but I have not kept up on the firmware features.

View attachment 326117

Based on my research on miniDSP user group, firmware versions 1.1.11, 1.1.12 and 1.1.13 had the ability to attenuate the signal at both the input and output stage. The input stage attenuation was meant to deal with intersampling peaks that can cause digital clipping with some tracks. I guess there were some isolated user problems with these versions so they removed this function in 1.1.14 until they understand the problem better. My 1.1.13 version works fine so I am sticking with it for now.