Dirac Live standalone for PC and Mac

[phoenixdogfan]

DLBC can indeed be set up as 2.2 sterro, but to do that successfully you have to have a preamp processor dac which will treat the output as two distinct subs. I do that for my stereo output. I also run the system as 5.1 having Dirac treat the two subs as one. I am able to do that because I use a Little bear switcher which directs the output of channel 3 on my Octo to either my center channel for the 5.1 set up or to the left sub for the 2.2 set up.

 

[jhaider]

- Windows (will try using my Macbook Pro too but I doubt it would make a difference),

Actually, it might. With a modern computer you shouldn’t need a multichannel DAC. If you have old DACs around, or are willing to pick up something cheap with USB in, you should be able to set up an “aggregate device.”

Admittedly, I have not tried it. I don’t like using computers except as streaming sources. When I was forced to use Dirac for Mac for something I did not have any issues remapping in the Dirac Live Processor app and using an ancient Anthem MRX300 as DAC and mains amp. (No sub on HDMI 4).

 

[peng]

Actually, it might. With a modern computer you shouldn’t need a multichannel DAC. If you have old DACs around, or are willing to pick up something cheap with USB in, you should be able to set up an “aggregate device.”

Admittedly, I have not tried it. I don’t like using computers except as streaming sources. When I was forced to use Dirac for Mac for something I did not have any issues remapping in the Dirac Live Processor app and using an ancient Anthem MRX300 as DAC and mains amp. (No sub on HDMI 4).

I know, as TimoJ explained to me how the mapping would work correctly a while back. As I mentioned, I am only beta testing using my AVM70 temporary. As such, I don't want to spend time swapping wiring and channels around back and forth between using the AVP for normal duty and beta testing. So I am going to test with just one subwoofer. Based on the results so far, I know it work well, as good as I expected, but I am sure if I actually config it for two independent subout it would do better.

By the way, is there any chance you can do a shootout between AARCG, DLBC and XT32 SubEQ HT(but with the app, please)? While I find those loyalist (don't what to call them fanboys) subjective reviews entertaining, I would much rather see yours that I trust will be not (or less) biased, and will come with lots of objective (in addition to subjective) measurements. I assume Hometheaterhifi would sponsor you to do such tests, but I guess may be not because of concerns it may alienate someone unless Audyssey, or even Dirac is the loser lol.. (since those are not married to any AVR/AVP manufacturers).

 

[peng]

BTW, there's another thread that discusses DLBC here.

Thanks, I like both threads because I have the standalone for PC version only.

 

[jhaider]

By the way, is there any chance you can do a shootout between AARCG, DLBC and XT32 SubEQ HT(but with the app, please)?

Alas, not too likely. Really since the pandemic I seem have to have very little time at home when (a) things are quiet enough to take measurements and (b) taking audio measurements wouldn't massively disturb someone's sleep.

Also, we moved here after DLBC was already a thing, so I don't even have a manual subwoofer optimization I could plug into Audyssey or ARC. That applies to both the immersive and big-bore 2-channel systems - I ended up picking up a second Monoprice HTP-1 for the 2-channel setup because I was otherwise never going to have time to make it a working system, and because IMO between DLBC and the excellent loudness compensation it's overall the best-sounding real world preamp option regardless of price or channel count. (Even Lyngdorf and Storm don't have the same loudness compensation on the same level.) So automated integration and calibration of multiple subwoofers is the floor to pique my interest today. I'd also be a lot more interested in seeing how ARCG's multisub implementation worked if (a) their AVPs had Auro and (b) the 4 sub version was available on something costing well under $7500. If Anthem end up bringing the full version to an STR-line 2-channel box (preamp or integrated) that would pique my interest.

 

[peng]

Alas, not too likely. Really since the pandemic I seem have to have very little time at home when (a) things are quiet enough to take measurements and (b) taking audio measurements wouldn't massively disturb someone's sleep.

Also, we moved here after DLBC was already a thing, so I don't even have a manual subwoofer optimization I could plug into Audyssey or ARC. That applies to both the immersive and big-bore 2-channel systems - I ended up picking up a second Monoprice HTP-1 for the 2-channel setup because I was otherwise never going to have time to make it a working system, and because IMO between DLBC and the excellent loudness compensation it's overall the best-sounding real world preamp option regardless of price or channel count. (Even Lyngdorf and Storm don't have the same loudness compensation on the same level.) So automated integration and calibration of multiple subwoofers is the floor to pique my interest today. I'd also be a lot more interested in seeing how ARCG's multisub implementation worked if (a) their AVPs had Auro and (b) the 4 sub version was available on something costing well under $7500. If Anthem end up bringing the full version to an STR-line 2-channel box (preamp or integrated) that would pique my interest.

Just fyi, I spent many hours again in the last two days on ARCG and it consistently result in a suck out in the below 40 Hz range. Audyssey cut bass too but to much lesser extent in the range below 40 hz or even 80 hz. I have been playing with DLBC PC standalone, it has never caused a suck out there either, even with the default target curve.

ARCG:

Here's one I posted before:
I could tweak it from the green (with the suck out) to the black (filled the suck out). And I only did the tweak because after running ARCG I notice the obvious missing low bass, I repeated the runs, tried 7 and 9 positions too but the results were the same so the recommended 5 position is the way to go, it saves time anyway.

So I am fine with the way it is, but I have to think that there may be something wrong with ARCG's alogorithm? One resident Anthem loyalist on AVSF mentioned a few times that he used the older 1.6.10 (or older) ARCG version as he found it better than the newest version. He didn't mentioned what's the difference, and no one asked him that question either. He, and others, never posted (there may be some I missed (more than 800 pages there to scan) actual REW measured graphs, so I am not sure if others might have experienced the same but either they just tweaked it like I did and be happy about it, or they didn't have the issue I experienced.

Based on many online raving reviews of ARCG by users and reviewers such as many Youtubers, I never thought I had to spend so much time on tweaking the bass. I really thought I could do the calibration once and then just sit back and enjoy the new joy.

I did quickly check various mic positions and found the same kind of variance between positions as expected, but without a careful visual comparison, one may be better than the others. Subjectively though, I did find Dirac DLBC sounded better though to me, there wasn't an audible difference (by memory) between DLBC and Audyssey, but it just sounded more difference flipping between Dirac on and off. Audibly more transparent with Dirac on, and I have yet try do some listening testing limiting the window to 5 kHz as I did with ARCG that has 5 kHz by default.

ARCG, tweaked vs untweaked vs Audyssey (red) tweaked with the $20 app+Rat:

Do you have any suspected reason for ARCG causing the bass dips from below 40 to 45 Hz?

Two days ago, after spending all day (literally) playing with not only the deep bass and room gain settings but also tweaking the trim levels of sub1 and sub2, checking with REW after each tweak (very painful), I was able to improve the bass a little more. I only did it for curiosity, there are no audible difference to me for real world listening. So, for my own setup, I am disappointed that I have to spend so much time to get the low bass to work better but subjectively the bass now sounds very good.

The blue curve is the better one, after playing with the app all day, ended up with sore back and strained muscle.

Dirac Live DLBC comparisons, no smoothing:

 

[jhaider]

So I am fine with the way it is, but I have to think that there may be something wrong with ARCG's alogorithm?… Do you have any suspected reason for ARCG causing the bass dips from below 40 to 45 Hz?

Hmm. I wonder if it’s detecting the null as the lower cutoff and then cutting everything after that.

I’m curious, have you played with inverting the sub polarities: one, then the other? I think DLBC will do that automatically, but only if they’re on independent channels. But I don’t know how much if at all ARCG incorporates phasing in its sub EQ.

 

[peng]

Hmm. I wonder if it’s detecting the null as the lower cutoff and then cutting everything after that.

I’m curious, have you played with inverting the sub polarities: one, then the other? I think DLBC will do that automatically, but only if they’re on independent channels. But I don’t know how much if at all ARCG incorporates phasing in its sub EQ.

I have not tried reversing the phase on one but thought about it.

Unlike DLBC that would do the phasing with the same sweep, i.e. do it once and complete, ARCG does the "autophase" separately and it took a long time as it seems to sweep over and over for many frequency points.

I have sent my project and some graphs to Anthem, no response the first time, then contact their support a second time after waited weeks, still no response. The funny thing is, when I contact them for something simple, they responded quickly, usually within 48 hours.

There is a sharp dip/null at just below 50 Hz as Dirac detected it too but it left things alone, in fact improved it with bass control on.

With 1/48 smoothing:
I will try reversing the phase, thanks.

 

[Idanonymous]

New to all this. I was wondering how to incorporate dirac live for pc in a setup. Let's say the setup is:

HTPC with recent nvidia gpu and media player set to bitstream audio through hdmi to atmos capable AVR that uses YPAO. My understanding is the AVR will decode the bitstream audio to lossless atmos for current 5.1.2. So if I have dirac live for pc, I can use it to do the room calibration instead of using YPAO? I can even use DLBC if I get the $849 room correction suite multichannel + bass control? The PC dlbc is multi subs up to 4 subs? If ART comes to pc, an HTPC has the upgrade flexibily instead of AVR hardware that might not receive optional ART upgrade. If an avr can handle 9.2, is there a limit on number of speakers in a setup with bitstream audio from pc through hdmi to the 9.2 AVR?

 

[kolestonin]

I understand that for Qobuz I have two options:

1. run the processing module as a standalone so to become the default output on the Windows sound card and listen Qobuz from it's windows 10 app

2. run as VST plugin on a player and listen Qobuz via the player

I lean more to option 1.
Are there any drawbacks?

 

[kolestonin]

Let me try to make my question more clear maybe.

I listen on a windows 10 pc.
I use almost exclusively Qobuz via it's windows 10 app.
I don't want to add any piece of gear/hardware in my chain.

Reading the below quote from excellent @Kal Rubinson review on stereophile, I understand that I don't need to use any player as I will install DLP as a regular application(and not as a plug-in) and I can continue using Qobuz windows 10 app as I do now. Is my understanding correct?

The Dirac system still has two components: the Dirac Live Processor (DLP, formerly the DAP), which applies the filter corrections to music as it plays. In PCs and Macs, it can be installed as a plug-in or as a regular application. Plug-in support is not universal, but JRiver, Audirvana Studio, Amarra, and most DAWs support it.

Many computer-based music apps can work with the standalone Dirac Processor. The processor module appears as a virtual soundcard (limited to 8 channels) and becomes the computer's default output device. The actual target device—the DAC—is specified in the Dirac Processor. There's no reason why this configuration should not work with all music players and the desktop apps of streaming services, but I could not get it to work with Roon (footnote 2). I used it successfully with JRiver, Apple Music, and Qobuz (up to 192kHz). A warning: The standalone application routes all sounds, including notifications, through the Dirac Processor to your system. If you don't turn off all system sounds, you and your neighbors risk ear-popping beeps, bells, and swooshes with the arrival of each new e-mail or the insertion of a USB drive.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Let me try to make my question more clear maybe.

I listen on a windows 10 pc.
I use almost exclusively Qobuz via it's windows 10 app.
I don't want to add any piece of gear/hardware in my chain.

Reading the below quote from excellent @Kal Rubinson review on stereophile, I understand that I don't need to use any player as I will install DLP as a regular application(and not as a plug-in) and I can continue using Qobuz windows 10 app as I do now. Is my understanding correct?

The Dirac system still has two components: the Dirac Live Processor (DLP, formerly the DAP), which applies the filter corrections to music as it plays. In PCs and Macs, it can be installed as a plug-in or as a regular application. Plug-in support is not universal, but JRiver, Audirvana Studio, Amarra, and most DAWs support it.

Many computer-based music apps can work with the standalone Dirac Processor. The processor module appears as a virtual soundcard (limited to 8 channels) and becomes the computer's default output device. The actual target device—the DAC—is specified in the Dirac Processor. There's no reason why this configuration should not work with all music players and the desktop apps of streaming services, but I could not get it to work with Roon (footnote 2). I used it successfully with JRiver, Apple Music, and Qobuz (up to 192kHz). A warning: The standalone application routes all sounds, including notifications, through the Dirac Processor to your system. If you don't turn off all system sounds, you and your neighbors risk ear-popping beeps, bells, and swooshes with the arrival of each new e-mail or the insertion of a USB drive.

Yes, correct. The dap acts like a hardware device in windows. you can select it in the app or set it as standard audio device in windows.

 

[myusernamechosen]

Let me try to make my question more clear maybe.

I listen on a windows 10 pc.
I use almost exclusively Qobuz via it's windows 10 app.
I don't want to add any piece of gear/hardware in my chain.

Reading the below quote from excellent @Kal Rubinson review on stereophile, I understand that I don't need to use any player as I will install DLP as a regular application(and not as a plug-in) and I can continue using Qobuz windows 10 app as I do now. Is my understanding correct?

The Dirac system still has two components: the Dirac Live Processor (DLP, formerly the DAP), which applies the filter corrections to music as it plays. In PCs and Macs, it can be installed as a plug-in or as a regular application. Plug-in support is not universal, but JRiver, Audirvana Studio, Amarra, and most DAWs support it.

Many computer-based music apps can work with the standalone Dirac Processor. The processor module appears as a virtual soundcard (limited to 8 channels) and becomes the computer's default output device. The actual target device—the DAC—is specified in the Dirac Processor. There's no reason why this configuration should not work with all music players and the desktop apps of streaming services, but I could not get it to work with Roon (footnote 2). I used it successfully with JRiver, Apple Music, and Qobuz (up to 192kHz). A warning: The standalone application routes all sounds, including notifications, through the Dirac Processor to your system. If you don't turn off all system sounds, you and your neighbors risk ear-popping beeps, bells, and swooshes with the arrival of each new e-mail or the insertion of a USB drive.

When you say ear popping is that because the volume isn't controlled for some reason?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

When you say ear popping is that because the volume isn't controlled for some reason?

System sounds can be much louder than music with high dynamic range. Also you could run into problems if you use the volume control of the player software instead of system volume.

 

[myusernamechosen]

System sounds can be much louder than music with high dynamic range. Also you could run into problems if you use the volume control of the player software instead of system volume.

Ok thanks, that all makes sense. I have a desktop setup I'm eager to try DIRAC on. I need to be able to allow all sounds though though since it's my work computer and I don't want to be switching things between meetings and listening.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There's no reason why this configuration should not work with all music players and the desktop apps of streaming services, but I could not get it to work with Roon (footnote 2). I used it successfully with JRiver, Apple Music, and Qobuz (up to 192kHz).

BTW, although I could not get it to work with Roon, others have although it appears not to respond to sample-rate changes and I have heard that users set their systems to up/down-sample to a fixed rate with the stand-alone implementation.

 

[myusernamechosen]

BTW, although I could not get it to work with Roon, others have although it appears not to respond to sample-rate changes and I have heard that users set their systems to up/down-sample to a fixed rate with the stand-alone implementation.

Thanks, right now I very annoyingly need IT to install the DIRAC piece on my computer since it's a work computer, but once they do that hopefully it'll work

 

[David_M]

Does anyone know the supported output sampling rate of my miniDSP Flex Digital with Dirac Live? My Topping EX5 DAC, connected to the Flex digital via TOSlink says 48kHz all the time, even when I play 96kHz, 192kHz, and 352kHz stereo audio sources.

Thanks!

 

[mike70]

Does anyone know the supported output sampling rate of my miniDSP Flex Digital with Dirac Live? My Topping EX5 DAC, connected to the Flex digital via TOSlink says 48kHz all the time, even when I play 96kHz, 192kHz, and 352kHz stereo audio sources.

Thanks!

Minidsp with Dirac have 32 bits / 48 khz in the specifications. So, what you see is correct.

But ... do you care about it? I can't find any difference between 96 / 48 / 44.1 khz ... only when the recording is really better I can find a difference, in other way, 44.1 is totally transparent for me, 96 doesn't make it better

 

[David_M]

Minidsp with Dirac have 32 bits / 48 khz in the specifications. So, what you see is correct.

But ... do you care about it? I can't find any difference between 96 / 48 / 44.1 khz ... only when the recording is really better I can find a difference, in other way, 44.1 is totally transparent for me, 96 doesn't make it better

Thanks...but the thing is, if I turn off Dirac, the EX5 still shows a 48kHz sampling rate for a 96KHz recording. Shouldn't it display the true rate if DL is bypassed?