Cute new schiit speaker amps

[mhardy6647]

There's a circa 3.5dB difference between channels performance in the more powerful unit- you can't put a toroid that close and get both channels identical.

Well -- that's not good.
3.5 dB is... a lot (you know... ish).

 

[restorer-john]

Well -- that's not good.
3.5 dB is... a lot (you know... ish).

It's actually still really good. There is always channel differences in amps and at that level, it'd probably be inaudible anyway.

 

[SDC]

compression driver EQ-ed for flat FR will need more than 2 watts. Need 10s of dBSPL EQ and that won't make it... At least I won't take it.

 

[Koeitje]

According to this poll, a vast majority of us listen normally at levels below 80 dB:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-loud-do-you-normally-have-your-music.33916/

80dB average means 95-100dB peaks with music. Conclusion: 5W is not enough for the vast majority of us.

 

[Hatto]

80dB average means 95-100dB peaks with music. Conclusion: 5W is not enough for the vast majority of us.

Maybe for classical music, not all types of music have 30dB dynamic range (which means loudest part of the music is SEVEN TIMES LOUDER than the most quiet part), let alone 40dB. However, if you want, you can still get 95 dB SPL (peak) with 88dB/W/m sensitivity speakers in nearfield listening with 5W. True, it might not be enough for EVERYONE, all I'm saying is 5W RMS is much more than most people think and use in average on a daily basis.

 

[Koeitje]

Maybe for classical music, not all types of music have 30dB dynamic range (which means loudest part of the music is SEVEN TIMES LOUDER than the most quiet part), let alone 40dB. However, if you want, you can still get 95 dB SPL (peak) with 88dB/W/m sensitivity speakers in nearfield listening with 5W. True, it might not be enough for EVERYONE, all I'm saying is 5W RMS is much more than most people think and use in average on a daily basis.

All I'm saying is 5W is much less than most people think. In pretty much every single non-nearfield application it won't be enough.

 

[Hatto]

In pretty much every single non-nearfield application it won't be enough.

Incorrect.

It's also sufficient for most non-nearfield applications unless you listen to music louder than 90dB SPL at all times more than 10ft away from your speakers (or you have low sensitivity speakers); which covers a much wider range than "pretty much every single non-nearfield application".

 

[restorer-john]

Incorrect.

It's also sufficient for most non-nearfield applications unless you listen to music louder than 90dB SPL at all times more than 10ft away from your speakers (or you have low sensitivity speakers); which covers a much wider range than "pretty much every single non-nearfield application".

He's perfectly correct.

Just for fun, I ran a Tripath TA-2024 (6W@8R/0.1%-11W@4R/0.1%) board yesterday from a benchtop variable supply into a few pairs of smallish two way bookshelf speakers on my lab desk, driven by CD. Within perhaps 15 minutes of listening to 80s pop classics, I'd pulled the plug and swapped in a Yamaha A-S300 (60wpc@8R) I had lying around doing nothing. Consider my partner was reading at the time, maybe 20ft away, so it wasn't very loud. Not even close, the difference with dynamics was staggering.

And I was monitoring the current peaks on the PSU to see what the Tripath was pulling. It only pulled close to 1.2A (both channels- 14W peak consumption) a few times, but the inability to render transients in the music I was familiar with, was obvious.

The case for a low powered low THD desktop amplifier is intriguing and fun, but in reality, it isn't HiFi, cannot remotely convey any sense of scale, or dynamic contrast and reeks of penny pinching in the extreme.

One small step up from powered plastic multimedia speakers in 1990s.

But, they are very cute, I give them that.

 

[Koeitje]

Incorrect.

It's also sufficient for most non-nearfield applications unless you listen to music louder than 90dB SPL at all times more than 10ft away from your speakers (or you have low sensitivity speakers); which covers a much wider range than "pretty much every single non-nearfield application".

I guess if you are only looking for background music it's sufficient. Even then I doubt it will be enough, because you will have to boost the bass quite a lot to make it sound good (damn you Fletcher Munson curve). Besides your average could be like 1W but the moment you hit any kind of dynamics you are going to need 10W to handle that 10dB peak.

The thing with amplifiers is that they are a paradox: you always need both less and more power than you except. Considering power is cheap I don't know why anyone would get anything below 20W@8ohm or something.

 

[JiiPee]

He's perfectly correct.

Just for fun, I ran a Tripath TA-2024 (6W@8R/0.1%-11W@4R/0.1%) board yesterday from a benchtop variable supply into a few pairs of smallish two way bookshelf speakers on my lab desk, driven by CD. Within perhaps 15 minutes of listening to 80s pop classics, I'd pulled the plug and swapped in a Yamaha A-S300 (60wpc@8R) I had lying around doing nothing. Consider my partner was reading at the time, maybe 20ft away, so it wasn't very loud. Not even close, the difference with dynamics was staggering.

And I was monitoring the current peaks on the PSU to see what the Tripath was pulling. It only pulled close to 1.2A (both channels- 14W peak consumption) a few times, but the inability to render transients in the music I was familiar with, was obvious.

The case for a low powered low THD desktop amplifier is intriguing and fun, but in reality, it isn't HiFi, cannot remotely convey any sense of scale, or dynamic contrast and reeks of penny pinching in the extreme.

One small step up from powered plastic multimedia speakers in 1990s.

But, they are very cute, I give them that.

What sensitivity do Your bookshelf speakers have?

According to Crown Audio calculator 5W is enough to give 70 dB average with 20 dB headroom at 2 meters distance with speakers having 89 db/1W/1m sensitivity. Also, I'm sure You know that all amplifiers are not equal in providing high peak currents when needed, even if their claimed power is similar.

I think it should be obvious to all that with a low power amplifier You need high sensitivity speakers for listening distances beyond near field monitoring.

 

[restorer-john]

What sensitivity do Your bookshelf speakers have?

According to Crown Audio calculator 5W is enough to give 70 dB average with 20 dB headroom at 2 meters distance with speakers having 89 db/1W/1m sensitivity. Also, I'm sure You know that all amplifiers are not equal in providing high peak currents when needed, even if their claimed power is similar.

I think it should be obvious to all that with a low power amplifier You need high sensitivity speakers for listening distances beyond near field monitoring.

Typical bookshelf small 2 ways are around 84-87dBSPL@1W/m. Many of mine (I have a lot) sit around those numbers.

But, the big issue of course is the classic deception of 1W=2.83V. Most loudspeakers are not even close to 8R these days. At 4R, 2.83V (1W/8R) is actually 2 watts, not 1 watt. So there goes another 3dB...

 

[Koeitje]

What sensitivity do Your bookshelf speakers have?

According to Crown Audio calculator 5W is enough to give 70 dB average with 20 dB headroom at 2 meters distance with speakers having 89 db/1W/1m sensitivity. Also, I'm sure You know that all amplifiers are not equal in providing high peak currents when needed, even if their claimed power is similar.

I think it should be obvious to all that with a low power amplifier You need high sensitivity speakers for listening distances beyond near field monitoring.

That is more sensitive than most bookshelves. Even those advertised as being that sensitive might not actually are (like Klipsch).

 

[JiiPee]

Typical bookshelf small 2 ways are around 84-87dBSPL@1W/m. Many of mine (I have a lot) sit around those numbers.

But, the big issue of course is the classic deception of 1W=2.83V. Most loudspeakers are not even close to 8R these days. At 4R, 2.83V (1W/8R) is actually 2 watts, not 1 watt. So there goes another 3dB...

Yep - agreed. For those searching higher sensitivity smallish speakers, I usually recommend checking the central European manufacturers offerings. They have some models apparently aimed at 300b SET amplifier fans

One example is the new Xavian Aria. According to manufacturer they are 8R speakers with 89 dB/1W/1m sensitivity, although I have not seen their actual measured impedance curve...

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Can any of these amps be used with power hungry headphones, HifiMan HE6SE comes to mind ? Not contemplating it but the amp that I use, the Drop THX AAA789, is no longer made... just in case...
Calling @solderdude ..others??

Peace.

 

[solderdude]

Rekkr has 4V out (0.3W) and is not enough output voltage for HE6SE and reach 103dB peak so 80-90dB average.
You can save about 6dB off of that number when EQ'ing to Harman.
The Gjallahorn is 9V out (1.6W) which would be enough up to loud levels (110dB peak).

 

[Hatto]

He's perfectly correct.

Just for fun, I ran a Tripath TA-2024 (6W@8R/0.1%-11W@4R/0.1%) board yesterday from a benchtop variable supply into a few pairs of smallish two way bookshelf speakers on my lab desk, driven by CD. Within perhaps 15 minutes of listening to 80s pop classics, I'd pulled the plug and swapped in a Yamaha A-S300 (60wpc@8R) I had lying around doing nothing. Consider my partner was reading at the time, maybe 20ft away, so it wasn't very loud. Not even close, the difference with dynamics was staggering.

And I was monitoring the current peaks on the PSU to see what the Tripath was pulling. It only pulled close to 1.2A (both channels- 14W peak consumption) a few times, but the inability to render transients in the music I was familiar with, was obvious.

The case for a low powered low THD desktop amplifier is intriguing and fun, but in reality, it isn't HiFi, cannot remotely convey any sense of scale, or dynamic contrast and reeks of penny pinching in the extreme.

One small step up from powered plastic multimedia speakers in 1990s.

But, they are very cute, I give them that.

If you couldn't even disturb a reader, that would mean you couldn't reach even 75-80dB SPL 20 ft away with 6W of power. Which would mean your speakers are really inefficient.

 

[Hatto]

I guess if you are only looking for background music it's sufficient. Even then I doubt it will be enough, because you will have to boost the bass quite a lot to make it sound good (damn you Fletcher Munson curve). Besides your average could be like 1W but the moment you hit any kind of dynamics you are going to need 10W to handle that 10dB peak.

The thing with amplifiers is that they are a paradox: you always need both less and more power than you except. Considering power is cheap I don't know why anyone would get anything below 20W@8ohm or something.

Speakers driven to 95dB SPL (peak) can easily handle 10dB peaks at 85dB SPL average.

 

[Martin]

I always liked the Digital Amplifier Company's Maraschino inline amplifier's form factor:

Martin

 

[Multicore]

I did read it on head-fi just a few hours ago. I love how Jason is trying to sell the whole "less is more" pitch.

If you want to sell consumer electronics to the younger generations, this may be a wise direction to take.

 

[TimW]

So I've been thinking about getting a new power amp, currently I'm using a Yamaha P2500S (250W @ 8ohms, 310W @ 4ohms). My speakers:

I cross these over to stereo subwoofers at 200Hz, powered by a Yamaha P3500S. The Yamaha amps have plenty of power, run cool and reliable, and I really have nothing to complain about with respect to sound. However they produce more noise then I would prefer with my main speakers and I know their objective performance isn't stellar.

IF I need 20dB of headroom, then a high SINAD amplifier option could be the Soncoz SGP1:

BUT IF I really don't need that much headroom, then the Jellyhorn could be a good option too... for much less money...

Either way I would have concerns about reliability from brand new designs, the 5 year warranty from a US company is a major plus for the little Schiit. Concerns about reliability are what hold me back from buying a decent Class-D amp currently, although I am still considering a NC252MP build. I also like the Outlaw 2220 with its all through-hole circuit board build, but It wouldn't be a big step up in measured performance from my Yamaha.

Is there really a difference in sound between lower power amps and higher power ones within their limits? How much power do I really need for my speakers?