What is it about McIntosh?

[Wmusic]

About used hi-end things…here in Italy the Mac Amp MA 8900 (new) is sold for 7990 Euros (probably due to the fact that it has been recently replaced by MA 8950). The same item is sold used more or less at the same price.
Generally speaking the used market recognizes that technology improvements in that sector are not enough to reduce the value of the older devices (image, durability over time, luxury, supposed sonic qualities, …). It is really an other market than that of consumer electronics.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I feel like I am a good person to chime in on this thread.

It sounds like you made a good choice but had regrets paying for it after the fact. Someone get to buy new, you just happened to be the one
that realized it's not a good idea if you pay attention. I bought one new Mcintosh piece only because my insurance had a replacement clause.
I exersized everyone. They paid 10% on the dollar unless you replaced it with new. No brainer!

 

[AuburnM5]

Buying new gets you a nice warranty. My Mac preamp has very little competition at it’s price point as far as performance AND feature set. Good resale value is a two edged sword. Buying used means you get no warranty, you have no idea how it was treated by the prior owner and the discount isn’t that great.

What preamp is that? I hope it doesn't have the DA2 DAC. I was talking to a friend at Audio Classics on Friday and tolld me a very amusing story. If y'all didn't know…McIntosh has a few entry level employees who do nothing but explore the net with some snazzy computers and software looking for potential fraud. After I traded in the c2500 for the new C2700, I tried to live with it for 2 months and could not see that preamp taunting every time I walked in the room. I listed it in the usu aal places and I got a call from my friend at AC asking if it was my listing because McIntosh called him about it and wanted a bunch of info. He and I were both flabbergasted at the fact it took McIntosh 10 min after ity was listed to call.

 

[AuburnM5]

It sounds like you made a good choice but had regrets paying for it after the fact. Someone get to buy new, you just happened to be the one
that realized it's not a good idea if you pay attention. I bought one new Mcintosh piece only because my insurance had a replacement clause.
I exersized everyone. They paid 10% on the dollar unless you replaced it with new. No brainer!

Yes and No. So, i work in a field (same field as my 1st job in 2006) where loyalty almost always leads to really good outcomes. So, when I bought my first McIntosh amp in 2004, it was from Audio Classics. Over the next 12 years, I bought 19 pieces of Mac equipment from them. I traded some back in for different pieces and I sold some. It finally paid off in 2016. The gent who I met in 2004 was and is still there. He sold them with a NICE discount and he always has since that day. He sold me a new C2700 for 6100 at a time where 8500 the normal rate people were and even higher in some places. j

Funny thing is, I didnt have those regrets until nearly 7 years later and the one thing I really really regretted paying 15k for, was the Sony native 4k projector (675es). I thought I was watching my aunts old rear projection TV from the early 90's. A few weeks later, I was talking about it on another forum,. and a guy messaged me that he had appts in GA and MS abd would i like to use his services. I said why no..and the ISF guy calibrated our projector and our LG OLED. The results were and are amazing. We use the Sony almst daily.

 

[MattHooper]

Putting aside the dubious stuff, the main takeaway is that tube amps are fashion statements in 2023. They're fun for people like me who design, build, and maintain them, but really don't belong in most people's systems.

Hmm, that sounds a bit “Tubes for me but not for Thee.” ;-)

Generally speaking, anything “belongs” in someone’s system that brings them pleasure.

I have no idea what it would mean that, for instance, my tube amps “don’t belong” in my system, except in the sense of projecting your own goals upon my system.

Cheers

 

[SIY]

Hmm, that sounds a bit “Tubes for me but not for Thee.” ;-)

Generally speaking, anything “belongs” in someone’s system that brings them pleasure.

I have no idea what it would mean that, for instance, my tube amps “don’t belong” in my system, except in the sense of projecting your own goals upon my system.

Cheers

They're both a maintenance nightmare and a danger to poke around in, the cheap stuff from eBay and the super expensive stuff from the fashion designers being the worst.

 

[ex audiophile]

I am the oddball I guess, as I never liked the look of most McIntosh gear, and only of late do I think Range Rovers aesthetics have gotten better.

In the outstanding film "The Departed," the slimy Matt Damon character had McIntosh gear in his condo, which made audible his criminality and resulting downfall with his pregnant girlfriend played by Vera Farmiga I wonder if Martin Scorsese is a McIntosh fan or if they paid for product placement?

nice rack tho

 

[rwortman]

What preamp is that? I hope it doesn't have the DA2 DAC. I was talking to a friend at Audio Classics on Friday and tolld me a very amusing story. If y'all didn't know…McIntosh has a few entry level employees who do nothing but explore the net with some snazzy computers and software looking for potential fraud. After I traded in the c2500 for the new C2700, I tried to live with it for 2 months and could not see that preamp taunting every time I walked in the room. I listed it in the usu aal places and I got a call from my friend at AC asking if it was my listing because McIntosh called him about it and wanted a bunch of info. He and I were both flabbergasted at the fact it took McIntosh 10 min after ity was listed to call.

I don’t understand this post. You could not see your preamp taunting you so you tried to sell it. Macintosh checked to make sure the dealer wasn’t sellong equipment at cut rate prices on the internet. What does this have to do with DAC modules? Are you looking for a new preamp that will taunt you?

I have a C49 with a DAC1 module in it. No need to upgrade to the DAC2 because what I have sounds fantastic and I don’t need HDMI inputs. The only comlaint I have is that the 12v triggers are a little anemic and that I have to drive it 100 miles to a service center if I want a firmware update. Manual firmware updates are kind of dumb in the internet age.

 

[Overseas]

McIntosh is going down now, that we all scientifically found that all amps measuring the same sound the same.

 

[Inner Space]

McIntosh is going down now, that we all scientifically found that all amps measuring the same sound the same.

a) That has been true throughout history - no now about it.
b) But no two amps in history have ever measured the same.
c) Probably you mean that if amp errors are too quiet to be perceived by humans, then the amps sound the same to humans.
d) Well, duh.

 

[rwortman]

McIntosh is going down now, that we all scientifically found that all amps measuring the same sound the same.

Really? First, no two amplifiers measure the same. Perhaps you mean all amplifiers with certain parameters under certain thresholds sound the same. This may be true but we have not tested enough amplifiers with enough speakers with enough people to make a universal claim.

Second, this claim has been made in audio for a long time. The Richard Clark amplifier challenge is 20 years old. Julian Hirsch was writing about this 50 years ago. Yet $100,000 amplifiers still exist.

There will always be a market for luxury goods. $20,000 watches don’t keep better time than a cheap digital yet people buy them. A guy with a decent sized budget that wants to put together a really nice audio system is not likely to choose cheap little module in a box amplifiers to power it no matter what we say in here. Hell, the founder of this site is using mega expensive Mark Levinson amps.

 

[OldHvyMec]

McIntosh is going down now, that we all scientifically found that all amps measuring the same sound the same.

LOL I hope this is purely to get someone's goat. In 70-80 more years we will see. There are just too many people that like
the service, the quality, the sound, the variety and the look. It has way to much to offer to fail anytime soon. WWIII maybe?

Regards

 

[Overseas]

. Hell, the founder of this site is using mega expensive Mark Levinson amps.

Ironic, isn't it.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Really? First, no two amplifiers measure the same. Perhaps you mean all amplifiers with certain parameters under certain thresholds sound the same. This may be true but we have not tested enough amplifiers with enough speakers with enough people to make a universal claim.

Second, this claim has been made in audio for a long time. The Richard Clark amplifier challenge is 20 years old. Julian Hirsch was writing about this 50 years ago. Yet $100,000 amplifiers still exist.

There will always be a market for luxury goods. $20,000 watches don’t keep better time than a cheap digital yet people buy them. A guy with a decent sized budget that want’s to put together a really nice audio system is not likely to choose cheap little module in a box amplifiers to power it no matter what we say in here. Hell, the founder of this site is using mega expensive Mark Levinson amps.

A number of years ago I decided to join the modern era and get a preamp with a remote volume control. I brought home a Parasound JC2 and a Mark Levinsion No. 326S and compared them. As expected I could hear no audible difference between the two.

I bought the considerably more expensive Mark Levinson preamp because of it's features and the precision of the volume control. I did not buy it for "prestige" reasons, I prefer to hide my equipment.

FWIW: I was replacing a vintage Marantz Model 7 tube preamp that while not as quiet as these modern preamps, other than SN ratio I didn't hear a difference there either, so at the very high end, to my ears at least, preamps haven't changed since the Model 7 was released in the late 50s.

 

[MattHooper]

They're both a maintenance nightmare and a danger to poke around in, the cheap stuff from eBay and the super expensive stuff from the fashion designers being the worst.

Ok, I certainly think cautioning about maintenance and any dangers makes sense.

But if someone has an idea of what he is getting in to, seems fine.

(I know not all tube amplification is the same for maintenance, but in my case I've owned my CJ amps for something like 23 years and the maintenance has been one fuse change and other than that new tubes about every 6 years or so).

 

[Doodski]

new tubes about every 6 years or so

How do you know when the tubes require replacement?

 

[OldHvyMec]

They're both a maintenance nightmare and a danger to poke around in, the cheap stuff from eBay and the super expensive stuff from the fashion designers being the worst.

In all the years I've owned valve gear, I have never had a failure other than a valve and one time SUPER blooper by me. I had a cable drop. That was one
serious screwup. It cost a lot of money. It blew one of 3 dedicated 20 amp circuit. It never blew a fuse in the amp or preamp. The 20 amp breaker.
I've never seen anything like it. The cables from a GG MC275 fell onto a Nord NC500 MB perfectly. + to + and - to negative. I couldn't have made it
do what it did. Of course the amp was brand new. It made a high pitched noise, the right channel Tweeter SMOKED and it blew the main in under 2 seconds.
I sat there for two hours smoking weed as my ears melted off my head, for the total blooper I just pulled.

Within 6 weeks the right channel on the C2500 took a dump. It was the bias circuit on the right main 12AX7. I don't think there would have been a preamp
failure without the cable drop. 13K new. 2K for parts and labor. It blew a transformer in the GG MC275. Very uncommon.

I went and got my 40 year old MB275 plugged it in warmed it up for 2 hours. While waiting I replaced the ribbon in a AC G3s or what ever model they were.
It did nothing to the NC500 MB, NOTHING they were live too. Nord was the Assembler. I have changes brands and went to Cary valve amps. LOL
About the only thing that fails there are the filter caps. LOL They mark their spot like an old Harley (oil on the floor) and blow fuses.
200.00 usd, change the caps in 1 hour, and your up and running.

With the valve units I use it has to be a serious issue for me not to be able to get up and running within 2 hours including repairs.
That includes Herron, Mcintosh, Cary, Decware and a few DIY tube units. Solid State not so much unless its a fuse.

Regards

 

[OldHvyMec]

How do you know when the tubes require replacement

You listen, look and measure. I have a MC225 that has the original tubes with the exception of one 12AX7. It's over 60 years old and looks like the day it was bought.

 

[Sal1950]

nice rack tho

Which one ???

 

[MattHooper]

How do you know when the tubes require replacement?

The sound. Starts getting grainy or usually something obvious like some distortion creeping in or a tube just fails. If that happens and all the tubes are many years old I just take it as a signal to replace all of them. (If I had a tube tester maybe I'd find some or all of them are still ok, but I can't be bothered).