WiiM Pro Streamer

[morillon]

yes..

Most likely the same I would expect on RME. ADI-2 handles incoming jitter very well.

Mini:
View attachment 251665

S2 Digi:
View attachment 251666

you and I have been able to measure it by juggling this type of measurement by varying the conditions,
in our observations at the digital level, we end up observing more the nature of the input processing of our acquisition cards than the original signal...
not so easy to distinguish between things.. and only point out what is happening in our dacs with toslink aes spdif ...
(""by forcing the line a little"" ;-) )

;-)

 

[onlyoneme]

yes..

you and I have been able to measure it by juggling this type of measurement by varying the conditions,
in our observations at the digital level, we end up observing more the nature of the input processing of our acquisition cards than the original signal...
not so easy to distinguish between things.. and only point out what is happening in our dacs with toslink aes spdif ...
(""by forcing the line a little"" ;-) )

;-)

Yeah, Mini captured even on cheap converter (S2 Digi again) looks similar to captured on RME:

Fortunately I can see differences of incoming jitter when capturing on miniDSP Flex.

 

[morillon]

the observation of a jtest.. old test is a particular thing (fortunately we will not inject 250hz square in real life ;-)) but the precise observation of a simple 12k, or 24k to 96k etc sine says a lot about the clock....
this will obviously be found in the multitones anyway ..
at 1k we won't see much on this point...(it is by going up in frequency that can really be observed more easily)
;-)
(for this reason that we often come across jitter measurements observing that a 12k.. just have to be careful if jtest or simple sine in what is presented to us)

Yeah, Mini captured even on cheap converter (S2 Digi again) looks similar to captured on RME:

View attachment 251669


Fortunately I can see differences of incoming jitter when capturing on miniDSP Flex.

a jtest is special
if you want to effectively observe the clock alone...if your acquisition modes allow it...
a simple 12k sine (or 24k in 96k) will be easier for observation
etc
;-)

 

[Mudflapper]

I agree with you about the Q/P ratio of the Mini, absolutely !
However, sometimes enhancing the comfort side of a product does make sense, imho.
The Pro offers more options and a slightly different product design, a more powerful processor and a different linkplay module.
For 40 Euros more (the Mini was lately at 109 Euros at Amazon.fr) I would opt - for example in case of a multi room setup - for the Pro as the master and for the Mini as endpoint solution. I do like as well the square design better than the puck ... but that's me ...

Yep, I agree with you as well lol. I don't care for the puck design because it's messy and unwieldy, and if your wifi isn't the best, you're stuck because there's no solid ethernet connection. That's (mostly) the deal breaker for me. If the Pro was, say, $10, I'd be totally on board.

 

[timmo]

in devices like wiim, why use bluetooth, when you can play anything from your mobile or any other network device via UPnP or with direct connection?
I agree that BT it's a nice plus but non so important, in my opinion obviously...

Most of the time I listen to WiiM with Bluetooth headphones (Momentum 4s), otherwise via my Denon AVR speakers when my ears need a rest. Sounds great to me with the headphones, but I probably don’t have golden ears like most people on this forum The reason why I like using the WiiM as the source to my Bluetooth headphones is that its a standalone device activated all the time for listening to music. I don’t like using my phone or a tablet as the source to my BT headphones. At the end of the day, I don’t want to pick my phone at all. Using WiiM allows me to do that because it is its own active standalone device to send the music (and I can use various controllers depending on what I’m doing around the house). The range is impressive for this little unit (much better than Denon via bluetooth and Sennheiser RF headphones).

 

[Eneen]

Is Pro bitperfect with 100% volume and flat eq? I mean is it worth to set volume lock or just set volume to 100?

What's delay between toslink in and out? Has anyone measured it?

 

[Brantome]

Is Pro bitperfect with 100% volume and flat eq? I mean is it worth to set volume lock or just set volume to 100?

What's delay between toslink in and out? Has anyone measured it?

The WiiM devices are bitperfect I understand when volume is fixed and EQ is off - flat doesn’t equate to off and the output is no longer bit perfect. See the WiiM help pages on EQ.

Also, I didn’t notice any audible delay between spdif in from my tv and coax out into my amp.

 

[Merifon]

Most of the time I listen to WiiM with Bluetooth headphones (Momentum 4s), otherwise via my Denon AVR speakers when my ears need a rest. Sounds great to me with the headphones, but I probably don’t have golden ears like most people on this forum The reason why I like using the WiiM as the source to my Bluetooth headphones is that its a standalone device activated all the time for listening to music. I don’t like using my phone or a tablet as the source to my BT headphones. At the end of the day, I don’t want to pick my phone at all. Using WiiM allows me to do that because it is its own active standalone device to send the music (and I can use various controllers depending on what I’m doing around the house). The range is impressive for this little unit (much better than Denon via bluetooth and Sennheiser RF headphones).

I must admit I forgot that wiim is also a transmitter but don't you use your mobile or tablet to control the wiim?
Anyway I was meaning that AAC or even SBC are enough for such easy use, LDAC o AptxHD maybe needed too costly effort vs the real need for them. Bt in/out is certainly a good plus but not the main reason to have a wiim.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Ye olde Sonos Connect physical comparison next to WiiM Pro. Only “advantage” Connect has is its built-in power supply, which of course also means if the power supply blows, the entire device is bricked. My Sonos gear is now collecting dust.

 

[timmo]

I must admit I forgot that wiim is also a transmitter but don't you use your mobile or tablet to control the wiim?
Anyway I was meaning that AAC or even SBC are enough for such easy use, LDAC o AptxHD maybe needed too costly effort vs the real need for them. Bt in/out is certainly a good plus but not the main reason to have a wiim.

I use any one of multiple devices to control it via the WiiM app. I don’t want to be tied to just one, and I don’t want to be bothered with app notifications/phone calls coming into that device if I use that instead of WiiM (for me the WiiM is a dedicated device for music only). Plus the WiiM app is a really nice app with multiple streaming services built-in (including soon to be Roon Ready) to give me a great listening experience depending on what I want to listen to, so it’s also the app experience of using WiiM over multiple standalone apps for audio listening. I for one hope they improve the BT codecs to at least aptxHD in future WiiM products for my particular use case. Not sure how many folks use the transmitter BT option like me. I can’t think of another streamer for my use case that beats WiiM on price and features.

Now if it can also cast to my Sonos speakers from WiiM, that would make me even more happy (I noticed this on their roadmap)

 

[Eneen]

The WiiM devices are bitperfect I understand when volume is fixed and EQ is off - flat doesn’t equate to off and the output is no longer bit perfect. See the WiiM help pages on EQ.

Also, I didn’t notice any audible delay between spdif in from my tv and coax out into my amp.

Ah ok, indeed EQ needs to be off. But no info if fixed volume=100% volume. However this can be similar so need to ask Wiim directly I guess.

Do you use new auto-sensing feature? How long does it take to switch into toslink input after stopping streaming playback and vice versa? I'm currently testing Powernode Edge and it works ok, except I need to turn TV off and on again to switch into optical.

 

[antcollinet]

Ah ok, indeed EQ needs to be off. But no info if fixed volume=100% volume. However this can be similar so need to ask Wiim directly I guess.

Do you use new auto-sensing feature? How long does it take to switch into toslink input after stopping streaming playback and vice versa? I'm currently testing Powernode Edge and it works ok, except I need to turn TV off and on again to switch into optical.

If volume is not fixed at 100% then you need to change the bits to reduce the volume. So yes - volume needs to be fixed at 100% if you want bit perfect.

 

[Brantome]

Ah ok, indeed EQ needs to be off. But no info if fixed volume=100% volume. However this can be similar so need to ask Wiim directly I guess.

Do you use new auto-sensing feature? How long does it take to switch into toslink input after stopping streaming playback and vice versa? I'm currently testing Powernode Edge and it works ok, except I need to turn TV off and on again to switch into optical.

I prefer, and indeed it might be best practice, to fix the volume at 100% for input devices and leave volume control to the last element in the chain, in my case my amp.

If I remember, I’ll run a short test today re input switching - from memory, it’s not instantaneous but I haven’t actually timed it.

 

[Eneen]

I prefer, and indeed it might be best practice, to fix the volume at 100% for input devices and leave volume control to the last element in the chain, in my case my amp.

If I remember, I’ll run a short test today re input switching - from memory, it’s not instantaneous but I haven’t actually timed it.

Yeah, that's what I plan, but I wanted to leave digital volume for family convenience. So hope this works like volume = 100 = bitperfect, volume < 100 = no bitperfect, you know what I mean.

Thx. For Powernode it takes a while, possibly due to TV not shutting down toslink led immediately after pressing standby on remote.

 

[Brantome]

Yeah, that's what I plan, but I wanted to leave digital volume for family convenience. So hope this works like volume = 100 = bitperfect, volume < 100 = no bitperfect, you know what I mean.

Thx. For Powernode it takes a while, possibly due to TV not shutting down toslink led immediately after pressing standby on remote.

Switching to the input took around a minute I think, while turning off took ages, so much so I turned the tv back on so I didn’t miss too much of what I was watching

Better using the Wiim app to change I think, unless they tweak the firmware to be more responsive

 

[onlyoneme]

So hope this works like volume = 100 = bitperfect, volume < 100 = no bitperfect, you know what I mean.

For that meaning of bit perfect, yes.

BTW fixing the volume sets it on 100% automatically.

 

[onlyoneme]

For Powernode it takes a while, possibly due to TV not shutting down toslink led immediately after pressing standby on remote.

Behavior depends also on ability to detect and handle frames marked as invalid or frames with zeroed only samples. Some devices do that to distinguish active and inactive inputs when toslink is not switched off.

 

[Eneen]

Behavior depends also on ability to detect and handle frames marked as invalid or frames with zeroed only samples. Some devices do that to distinguish active and inactive inputs when toslink is not switched off.

I guess Powernode handles active input then as to get optical-in back I need to turn TV off and on.

Switching to the input took around a minute I think, while turning off took ages, so much so I turned the tv back on so I didn’t miss too much of what I was watching

I guess this is "1 minute to standby/idle timeout", as stated in docs it detects in idle only.
In Powernode streaming services have priority, when I start Tidal connect Powernode switches into streaming instantly even if optical-in is active. If I understand correctly maybe when Wiim switches into optical-in it doesn't switch back until you start streaming again, I mean it needs new stream to actually "detect".

Better using the Wiim app to change I think, unless they tweak the firmware to be more responsive

This is really room for improvement here then.

 

[Eneen]

For that meaning of bit perfect, yes.

BTW fixing the volume sets it on 100% automatically.

I've got very quick answer from Wiim:

You can achieve the bit perfect output by either setting the volume to 100 without EQ or turning on the fixed volume output option. Please feel free to let us know if you have any other questions with the product.

So it works in the way it should. For quick background music adjust volume in the phone, for more serious listening just turn to 100% and adjust from amp without ticking "100% lock option"

 

[BDE]

Mh, am I seeing right that no IR remote control is possible? For me this is unbelievable especially because it would be implemented relatively cheap (input selection & volume control).
Maybe this hack is possible (-> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/ir-remote-control-hack-for-wiim-mini.35946/) but I guess with a delay. Still a unsmart decision not to implement it right from the beginning. Useless voice control is implemented..