TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

[GaryH]

It's unknow what kind of noise was used.

No it's not. It was traffic noise, as stated on the USound site.

Oratory1900 has shared a lot of great knowledge which can be generally trusted. At the same time statements related to work done on behalf of his employer might be subject to coded language or not disclose a full context to comply with possible NDAs.

There's no NDA conspiracy going on here. No 'coded language'. The noise research is literally stated by USound themselves on their own website and explained further by the guy who actually helped come up with the target. If Oratory can't say something due to an NDA, he says so.

Sean Olive mentioned the work of Gaëtan Lorho on his Twitter. I haven haven't gotten hold of Lorho's paper yet, but the outcome looks like less mids vs Harman-IE, which is also what USound came to.

Lorho's study was from 2009 and has long since been been superseded and its results overturned by independent research performed by both Fraunhofer (of MP3 fame) and Harman. Sean explains everything here (my emphasis):

Fleishmann et al. (2012) reported the first formal listening test results where three SRF [semireflective field] headphone targets were evaluated. The targets were based on measurements of the steady-state in-room response of a 5.1-channel loudspeaker setup in a standard listening room and then equalized by three expert listeners to match the timbre of the speakers. Two of the SRF targets were found to be slightly preferred to the DF target, depending on the music programs. Other targets included the Lorho target, a flat target, and three unequalized headphones that generally received lower ratings than the two SRF targets. Unfortunately, no measurements or details of the loudspeakers and the three SRF targets were given. The conclusions were that the SRF targets were equal to or better than the DF target, but the Lorho target was not.

A similar study (Olive et al., 2013a) reported evidence that listeners strongly preferred headphones equalized to SRF targets to, in descending order of preference, two DF targets (Möller et al., 1995); two high-quality headphones; the Lorho target; and the FF target. The trained listeners described both DF targets as having too much emphasis in the upper midrange (2-4 kHz) and lacking bass. The Lorho target had too little energy at 2-4 kHz, which made instruments sound “muffled and dull.” The FF target was strongly criticized for its strong emphasis between 2 and 4 kHz, lack of bass, and harsh and nasal colorations. Listeners described the highest rated the SRF target as having “good bass with an even spectral balance.” The measured frequency responses of the headphone targets correlate to and confirm listeners’ descriptions of their sound quality (see Olive et al., 2013b, Figure 2). The highest rated target curve in this study soon became known in the audio industry as the Harman target curve and is widely influencing the design, testing, and review of headphones.

And no, Oratory and USound's research did not come to a different outcome than Harman's under the same conditions; they only found a different curve was preferred in a noisy environment. You really are way off base with all of this.

 

[Docmoggy]

I think I'm a bit late to the party! Received my set this morning and they are still in my ears many hours later. In fact I'm doing an Amir listening as I'm writing. They simply blow my old and beaten up Shure SE 535 out of the water and my eyes did water when I paid for them many moons ago. I simply cannot believe how good these IEMS are. Might invest in a DAC/AMP for it. I did as Amir suggested and it's saved me hundreds. How much better can it get in terms of sound quality? I hope they last as long as my Shure's, but if they don't I'll just buy another pair. I think Truthear have just released a new IEM, but what could be better for the nominal price hike? I look forward to another review. Also, are there any reviews of FiiO M17/Q7 planned? these portable devices have specifications that are almost identical to static desktop versions and cost nearly just as much or more with significant claims being made about their performance on the move. For example the FiiO M17 comes in at a whopping $1800, but you get a spec that is very similar to the SMSL SU10. Would it be worth investing in one I wonder? Would love to see a comparison between these portable amplifiers and desktop. I mean, could it be we could see portable replacing traditional desktop devices like laptops and tablets replaced desktop PCs?

 

[zvukofor]

Got mine finally.
Damn, they’re great.
Will use it a second pair of monitors for mixing and recording, definitely.

 

[markanini]

No it's not. It was traffic noise, as stated on the USound site.

There's no NDA conspiracy going on here. No 'coded language'. The noise research is literally stated by USound themselves on their own website and explained further by the guy who actually helped come up with the target. If Oratory can't say something due to an NDA, he says so.

Lorho's study was from 2009 and has long since been been superseded and its results overturned by independent research performed by both Fraunhofer (of MP3 fame) and Harman. Sean explains everything here (my emphasis):


And no, Oratory and USound's research did not come to a different outcome than Harman's under the same conditions; they only found a different curve was preferred in a noisy environment. You really are way off base with all of this.

From the horses mouth:

He goes on to double down:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/k883l5/_/gexs3t4
Go back to your links and read carefully, no causal relationship is stated, that's why you are making an assumption. Forget your charged language and tangents.

 

[GaryH]

From the horses mouth:

He goes on to double down:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/k883l5/_/gexs3t4
Go back to your links and read carefully, no causal relationship is stated, that's why you are making an assumption. Forget your charged language and tangents.

I suggest reading your own links more carefully before posting, and recognizing the difference between speculation and single anecdotal impressions on the one hand, and controlled aggregated listening tests of many users on the other.

A lot of people might also prefer the usound target when it's quiet outside

personally I love the XBA-N3 on quiet nights in the hotel

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/k883l5/_/gexq9x1 As for causation, I've previously explained this to you, which you ignored:

The only variable changed was external noise, so this determines causation.

Here if you change one independent variable between the two tests over an ensemble, and the dependent variable changes, that determines a causal relationship between that independent variable and the dependent variable, in this case external noise and preferred frequency response respectively.

 

[markanini]

I suggest reading your own links more carefully before posting, and recognizing the difference between speculation and single anecdotal impressions on the one hand, and controlled aggregated listening tests of many users on the other.


https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/k883l5/_/gexq9x1 As for causation, I've previously explained this to you, which you ignored:

Here if you change one independent variable between the two tests over an ensemble, and the dependent variable changes, that determines a causal relationship between that independent variable and the dependent variable, in this case external noise and preferred frequency response respectively.

He says: These are the conditions for my study. My conditions differ from a different study. And my outcome is also different.
He doesn't say: My outcome is different because of different conditions.

Is that not clear?

 

[Robbo99999]

He says: These are the conditions for my study. My conditions differ from a different study. And my outcome is also different.
He doesn't say: My outcome is different because of different conditions.

Is that not clear?

What are you trying to say Markanini? Are you trying to say the USound Target is better than the Harman IEM Target? From what you both have been posting not even Oratory is saying the USound Target is better for most people than the Harman IEM Target - in fact he says the Harman IEM Target would win out on average. The only distinction is that it would seem the USound Target would win out when lots of external noise is present. That's my understanding based on the conversation you've both been having.

 

[Docmoggy]

I’ve just gone for it. Bought the Hexa and a Topping G5 from Shenzenaudio. Had faultless service from them so far. Was mindful to add a lightning - usb c connector in the bag too. Is t included in the particular version of the G5 I purchased. I was tempted to drop in some fancy cable upgrades but I know it’s snake oil!

I shall report my experience in due course.

 

[markanini]

What are you trying to say Markanini? Are you trying to say the USound Target is better than the Harman IEM Target? From what you both have been posting not even Oratory is saying the USound Target is better for most people than the Harman IEM Target - in fact he says the Harman IEM Target would win out on average. The only distinction is that it would seem the USound Target would win out when lots of external noise is present. That's my understanding based on the conversation you've both been having.

Didn't you recently make generalized statements on recorded music based on curated data of a single artist? You were criticized for it too:

TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

When I've analysed music specturally through Audacity, then I think you could get away with saying that a lot of music is High Passed at 30Hz, but not 40Hz - ie there's not a lot of music with meaningful content below 30Hz. Here is a random pop song I pulled off YouTube, you can see it's...

www.audiosciencereview.com

GaryH made a similar mistake and claimed that the Truthear Zero didn't match Harman-IE based on amirm's sample.

What IEMs do you consider significantly better than the beloved Truthear Zero IEMs?

There's too much bias put on raw FR and conformance to a target eq. I want a good low distortion iem with fast settling time and good impulse response as well as easy to handle and offering good fit. The 'who matches the curve best' game is dull, it only tells you broad strokes.

www.audiosciencereview.com

amirim declared in post #1 "superb compliance with target". Looking at measurements of multiple samples further shows GaryH's assertion is wrong.

Poll: Do you like Harman In-Ear target curve?

Based on your clarification, I would sort of agree, semantics aside. Rather than trying to use adjectives which are commonly used to describe the nature of sound colorations, I often find myself describing the sound imparted by describing a quality one can imitate with one's voice. In the case...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's sad seeing this kind of cope come out of refusal to understand data.

 

[asrUser]

Even here that Gary lives in his science bubble? so boring

 

[asrUser]

I’ve just gone for it. Bought the Hexa and a Topping G5 from Shenzenaudio. Had faultless service from them so far. Was mindful to add a lightning - usb c connector in the bag too. Is t included in the particular version of the G5 I purchased. I was tempted to drop in some fancy cable upgrades but I know it’s snake oil!

Hexa is pretty good and takes equalizing well.

 

[Docmoggy]

Hexa is pretty good and takes equalizing well.

I must say, I’m new to serious IEM listening and therefore, not familiar with equalization processes. What do I need and what is the method to benefit from it? Guidance and Tips most welcomed.

 

[Robbo99999]

Didn't you recently make generalized statements on recorded music based on curated data of a single artist? You were criticized for it too:

TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

When I've analysed music specturally through Audacity, then I think you could get away with saying that a lot of music is High Passed at 30Hz, but not 40Hz - ie there's not a lot of music with meaningful content below 30Hz. Here is a random pop song I pulled off YouTube, you can see it's...

www.audiosciencereview.com

GaryH made a similar mistake and claimed that the Truthear Zero didn't match Harman-IE based on amirm's sample.

What IEMs do you consider significantly better than the beloved Truthear Zero IEMs?

There's too much bias put on raw FR and conformance to a target eq. I want a good low distortion iem with fast settling time and good impulse response as well as easy to handle and offering good fit. The 'who matches the curve best' game is dull, it only tells you broad strokes.

www.audiosciencereview.com

amirim declared in post #1 "superb compliance with target". Looking at measurements of multiple samples further shows GaryH's assertion is wrong.

Poll: Do you like Harman In-Ear target curve?

Based on your clarification, I would sort of agree, semantics aside. Rather than trying to use adjectives which are commonly used to describe the nature of sound colorations, I often find myself describing the sound imparted by describing a quality one can imitate with one's voice. In the case...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's sad seeing this kind of cope come out of refusal to understand data.

No

(and besides the information GaryH has been showing re USound Target and Oratory's thoughts on it vs Harman IEM Target are quite straight forward, I don't know why you continue to argue seemingly for the sake of it)

 

[Wicky]

I must say, I’m new to serious IEM listening and therefore, not familiar with equalization processes. What do I need and what is the method to benefit from it? Guidance and Tips most welcomed.

You'll require something that does DSP in your playback chain. Then you'll need to configure the PEQ to your preference, there are PEQ settings for Harman and other targets for different IEMs/headphones by Oratory, Crinacle et. al.): https://github.com/iwalton3/AutoEq/tree/master/results/

DSP based software on PC/phone are probably easiest (such a Roon) unless you happen to have hardware based DSP such as the RME ADI-2 DAC, or DYI style RaspberryPI setups.

 

[Chromatischism]

I must say, I’m new to serious IEM listening and therefore, not familiar with equalization processes. What do I need and what is the method to benefit from it? Guidance and Tips most welcomed.

If you have an Android phone, the best is to use Wavelet. On PC, Equalizer APO with PEACE installed.

 

[Docmoggy]

If you have an Android phone, the best is to use Wavelet. On PC, Equalizer APO with PEACE installed.

Only IPhone, Pad - Apple etc..

 

[FrantzM]

Only IPhone, Pad - Apple etc..

Use the $9,95 Apple dongle (Lighting to 3.5 mm headphones adapter)... but with the TCZ with no EQ you get darn near bliss...

Peace

 

[Docmoggy]

Use the $9,95 Apple dongle (Lighting to 3.5 mm headphones adapter)... but with the TCZ with no EQ you get darn near bliss...

Peace

Hi, I have that combination already. However, will require lightning to USB-C for the Topping G5. I see AMIR does not recommend any EQ for the Truthear C Zero. Interesting.

 

[asrUser]

I must say, I’m new to serious IEM listening and therefore, not familiar with equalization processes. What do I need and what is the method to benefit from it? Guidance and Tips most welcomed.

There are so many sources you can start from. You are using Apple devices, right? Macbook too?

Here are several applications for operating systems: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Some other links about EQ:

Equalizing Headphones the Easy Way

Sound quality isn’t a priority to many headphone manufacturers but that can be fixed without a PhD in audio engineering. Here’s how.

medium.com

Unfortunately there's no AutoEQ profile for the HEXA yet. At least you can try some bass shelves if you like more bass. Without an IEM coupler you could just look some frequency charts from Crinacle, Resolve (headphoneshow) and son on.

Use the $9,95 Apple dongle (Lighting to 3.5 mm headphones adapter)... but with the TCZ with no EQ you get darn near bliss...

Peace

Why should he get a lousy Apple dongle if he bought Topping G5 already?

Hi, I have that combination already. However, will require lightning to USB-C for the Topping G5. I see AMIR does not recommend any EQ for the Truthear C Zero. Interesting.

I think he just meant EQ wouldn't be necessary, but you are free to EQ all you want to your tastes.

 

[Docmoggy]

There are so many sources you can start from. You are using Apple devices, right? Macbook too?

Here are several applications for operating systems: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Some other links about EQ:

Equalizing Headphones the Easy Way

Sound quality isn’t a priority to many headphone manufacturers but that can be fixed without a PhD in audio engineering. Here’s how.

medium.com

Unfortunately there's no AutoEQ profile for the HEXA yet. At least you can try some bass shelves if you like more bass. Without an IEM coupler you could just look some frequency charts from Crinacle, Resolve (headphoneshow) and son on.


Why should he get a lousy Apple dongle if he bought Topping G5 already?



I think he just meant EQ wouldn't be necessary, but you are free to EQ all you want to your tastes.

Thank you so much for taking time out to compile this information. I think the other chap was trying to be helpful. I will try out this DSP and PEQ stuff!

I wonder what people who bought the Hexa are using? Same set up as the Zero?