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Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

ryanosaur

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disregard the promises of future features.
In general, this is great advice. :D

I suspect SU will deliver on getting Bass Control implemented. I would not bet on the Spatial Correction.

I also think we are still 1 generation on ALL Machines away from having what should be fully functioning HDMI 2.1. I haven't done the digging yet, but don't think we are seeing 48gbps yet, likely still at 40. That detail has been hard to find.

I know I've spread the idea I heard from somebody else... but when Trinnov updates their HDMI, that is likely when it is ready for prime time. Not that the current implementations don't work, but they are fully realized yet.
 

Vacceo

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In general, this is great advice. :D

I suspect SU will deliver on getting Bass Control implemented. I would not bet on the Spatial Correction.

I also think we are still 1 generation on ALL Machines away from having what should be fully functioning HDMI 2.1. I haven't done the digging yet, but don't think we are seeing 48gbps yet, likely still at 40. That detail has been hard to find.

I know I've spread the idea I heard from somebody else... but when Trinnov updates their HDMI, that is likely when it is ready for prime time. Not that the current implementations don't work, but they are fully realized yet.
I had an Anthem AVM70 under my radar. They promised to update the HDMI board to 2.1...

Currently, I'd rather wait a bit more and read the reviews of Dirac MIMO, the systems that use it and if it's worth the upgrade. In the meantime, I hope I can see reviews of the new Sound United batch, same for Primare and other manufacturers that haven't announced anything, but probably will on time.
 

ryanosaur

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I had an Anthem AVM70 under my radar. They promised to update the HDMI board to 2.1...

Currently, I'd rather wait a bit more and read the reviews of Dirac MIMO, the systems that use it and if it's worth the upgrade. In the meantime, I hope I can see reviews of the new Sound United batch, same for Primare and other manufacturers that haven't announced anything, but probably will on time.
My hope was to upgrade the AVR to a Processor next year. I'm eager, but not rushing. I'll know what I need to by then about all the current gear, and maybe what's in the pipeline for new releases. :D
 

Vacceo

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My hope was to upgrade the AVR to a Processor next year. I'm eager, but not rushing. I'll know what I need to by then about all the current gear, and maybe what's in the pipeline for new releases. :D
I honestly hope KEF pushes the active line towards Dirac integration and multichannel. If not, well, Genelec or Sigberg sound very interesting too. I like coaxials and seamed stockings, what can I say... :D
 

ryanosaur

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I honestly hope KEF pushes the active line towards Dirac integration and multichannel. If not, well, Genelec or Sigberg sound very interesting too. I like coaxials and seamed stockings, what can I say... :D
I was chatting with Thorbjørn the other day and told him I may need to order up some of his Sica Coaxials to play with for myself. I can't drop the coin for his gear... but I may be able to get a good DIY inspired by it! (Really want to play with those Mantas he is working on!) :)

When you mentioned Stockings... I thought you were talking about DefTech BPs... :rolleyes: I need to get out more. :p
 

dlaloum

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I think I red that by March next year, we may see how Dirac is implemented on Sound United products.

My guess is the current hardware is able to run it but it seems they need some time to make sure it works well. By then, we should know about what version it will run.
SU committed to having Dirac available on their AVR's by March 2023... Dirac on the other hand have said it was up to SU...

The version of Dirac SU have committed to is Dirac Live - no DLBC, no SRC...

They (SU) have committed to DLBC, but no milestone date has been set... so we don't know when.

SRC - Dirac hinted that they were testing it using the A1H... but I might have been misreading it, given SU are still working on integration ?
 

dlaloum

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Also unfortunate ... it is a shame so few Dirac solutions have any system wide loudness compensation ... I know the Monoprice HTP1 does, but do any other Dirac processors have a good working loudness compensation?
If they have licensed Dolby Surround (and they all have!) - then they have access to Dolby's Loudness and Late night features - loudness compensation and compression.
 

dlaloum

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In general, this is great advice. :D

I suspect SU will deliver on getting Bass Control implemented. I would not bet on the Spatial Correction.

I also think we are still 1 generation on ALL Machines away from having what should be fully functioning HDMI 2.1. I haven't done the digging yet, but don't think we are seeing 48gbps yet, likely still at 40. That detail has been hard to find.

I know I've spread the idea I heard from somebody else... but when Trinnov updates their HDMI, that is likely when it is ready for prime time. Not that the current implementations don't work, but they are fully realized yet.
I think the 48gb vs 40gb issue is related to the physical HDMI chipset .... so it may not be "fixable" without hardware upgrades - and due to lack of chipsets, it ain't happening any time soon!
 

Dj7675

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If they have licensed Dolby Surround (and they all have!) - then they have access to Dolby's Loudness and Late night features - loudness compensation and compression.
But does not work with other sound formats does it?
 

ryanosaur

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I think the 48gb vs 40gb issue is related to the physical HDMI chipset .... so it may not be "fixable" without hardware upgrades - and due to lack of chipsets, it ain't happening any time soon!
Agreed. The chipset itself has not fully matured. It is not manufacturer implementation.
The Buzz I had heard is that the Gen3 chipset likely wouldn't be available until late this year or early next. I do not know for certain if that is still the case. But what is apparent is that until they get it up to 48gbps, it is still nerfed in some manner.
If it were in fact finalized this year, product in development for release next year or in 2024 could have it.

(Following the chipset details is far from my knowledge base, and truthfully I find myself wondering how the Consoles like PS5 could be so far ahead of the curve... I expect there is a simple answer, but that level of engineering is beyond me. I just hope I can buy once for the next 7-10 years after that and be happy and content without some other forced obsolescence being applied to render any such device unusable. (Hyperbole.) :) )
 

dlaloum

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But does not work with other sound formats does it?
Dolby Surround includes the decoder (for dolby streams) and the Mixer.

The Mixer can be applied to ANY stream - PCM, DTS, or Dolby.

And the loudness / late night functions are part of the Mixer.

So yes it does work with all sound formats.

I use Dolby Surround as my standard mixer for all formats - I prefer it to the DTS mixer - and it makes life simpler for these sorts of functions
 

Dj7675

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Dolby Surround includes the decoder (for dolby streams) and the Mixer.

The Mixer can be applied to ANY stream - PCM, DTS, or Dolby.

And the loudness / late night functions are part of the Mixer.

So yes it does work with all sound formats.

I use Dolby Surround as my standard mixer for all formats - I prefer it to the DTS mixer - and it makes life simpler for these sorts of functions
Appreciate the info. I didn’t know the loudness compensation from Dolby could apply to all streams.
 

dlaloum

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Agreed. The chipset itself has not fully matured. It is not manufacturer implementation.
The Buzz I had heard is that the Gen3 chipset likely wouldn't be available until late this year or early next. I do not know for certain if that is still the case. But what is apparent is that until they get it up to 48gbps, it is still nerfed in some manner.
If it were in fact finalized this year, product in development for release next year or in 2024 could have it.

(Following the chipset details is far from my knowledge base, and truthfully I find myself wondering how the Consoles like PS5 could be so far ahead of the curve... I expect there is a simple answer, but that level of engineering is beyond me. I just hope I can buy once for the next 7-10 years after that and be happy and content without some other forced obsolescence being applied to render any such device unusable. (Hyperbole.) :) )

A consolation for you....

If you calculate out the requirements based on your visual acuity, and the distance from the screen, in at least 75% of use cases, 1080p is already beyond your visual acuity - and 4K is therefore unnecessary.

For those sitting nearer the screen, or opting for a screen that fills a wider angle of vision than recommended by the standards (SMPTE or THX) - 4K may be useful... but in most cases it is well beyond what is needed!

smpte angle of vision.jpg

This chart is a useful guideline from RTings website


The key point here, is that the full 48gbps bandwidth is only required for the highest resolutions - and not only is material at those resolutions rare or non-existent for most users, but in fact, it is well beyond our ability to visually see those resolutions. - it is designed for uncompressed 8K@60Hz or 4K@120Hz.

With regards to frames per second - for most people max discernible under experimental conditions is circa 60Hz.... air force flight simulators aim for 75fps - and have shown that some fighter pilots (selected for their high visual acuity and time response) - can reach as high as 75fps.
So we have some rare edge cases that can see the difference between 60Hz and 75Hz, but apparently none that can see the difference between 75Hz and 120Hz (lots of gamers would disagree.... but their perceptual measurements have more to do with PC/Interface responsiveness than visual acuity - and don't have any measurable/quantifiable testing support...)

40g will support 4k (UltraHD) at up to 129FPS in 10bit ... using only 35gbps.

We have reached the point where people are focused on overengineered specifications, that probably add nothing...

I have a 65" 4K screen which I view from 2.2m (7') - the table says that UltraHD/4K should be "worth it" - depending on my visual acuity.
My subjective viewing, says that for most material (streaming, compressed) - I see no difference... and 1080p seems to be the sweet spot.
My own calculations based on other visual acuity calculators, seems to point to it being unlikely that I could tell the difference between 4K and 1080p.

Check your own setup, look into visual acuity and angle of vision calculation - see what resolution you really need, and whether there is any point seeking 48gbps!
 

Chromatischism

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Dolby Surround includes the decoder (for dolby streams) and the Mixer.

The Mixer can be applied to ANY stream - PCM, DTS, or Dolby.

And the loudness / late night functions are part of the Mixer.

So yes it does work with all sound formats.

I use Dolby Surround as my standard mixer for all formats - I prefer it to the DTS mixer - and it makes life simpler for these sorts of functions
What if you don't use an upmixer? What about:

A Dolby Atmos soundtrack
A DTS:X soundtrack
An Auro3D soundtrack
 

Chromatischism

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I have a 65" 4K screen which I view from 2.2m (7') - the table says that UltraHD/4K should be "worth it" - depending on my visual acuity.
My subjective viewing, says that for most material (streaming, compressed) - I see no difference... and 1080p seems to be the sweet spot.
My own calculations based on other visual acuity calculators, seems to point to it being unlikely that I could tell the difference between 4K and 1080p.
A real benefit of a 2160p display would come if the display were used to show off images, like for photography. Especially if it's with OLED. Maybe a niche thing, but as one with several hobbies...;)
 

dlaloum

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What if you don't use an upmixer? What about:

A Dolby Atmos soundtrack
A DTS:X soundtrack
An Auro3D soundtrack

Given that my setup only has base layer... 5.1 - I have not experimented any further.

In theory, Atmos, is from the house of Dolby.... and I would expect it to be fine.

DTS:X & Auro3D - I have absolutely no idea, but Auro is its own mixer - so if it has such functions within it's suite, good, otherwise :( - I don't think DTS:X can be passed through.

It is an interesting question - does Audyssey DEQ/Vol also handle the height channels? - and how well does it do that?

Thought I had seen some people complaining about surrounds and heights not being properly loudness managed, but I don't recall which software they were being run through.
 

dlaloum

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A real benefit of a 2160p display would come if the display were used to show off images, like for photography. Especially if it's with OLED. Maybe a niche thing, but as one with several hobbies...;)
Even then - once the resolution of the individual pixels is beyond what the eye can see, at the required viewing distance.... why go any further?

The pros/cons of LED vs OLED are still the same - if you need brightness (open plan living space with large windows and sunlight streaming in...) - you sacrifice contrast and go for brightness ie: LED. If you have a light controlled environment - ie: proper home theatre, no windows, artificial lighting only.... then go for low brightness and maximum contrast.... OLED is king.

I really really wanted to go OLED - but in my setup, it would be pointless, half the time you could not see the screen - it has to be bright enough to be visible.... so LED it is!

And yes - that does limit/constrain HDR/DolbyVision and such.... perhaps in a generation or two, MicroLed's might allow for brightness WITH contrast... sigh...

We are pretty happy with our resolution when we put our pics up on the 65" Sony 4K screen.... but yeah contrast is an issue
 

Chromatischism

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It is an interesting question - does Audyssey DEQ/Vol also handle the height channels? - and how well does it do that?
They affect all channels. Results would be rather strange if they didn't :)

What you've seen is a level boost applied to speakers that are to the side or rear of the seating position. That would be the side surrounds, rear surrounds, and rear heights. It's based on the idea that our ears hear differently there and benefit from the boost, however many believe they overdo the effect. It is compensated for by reducing those channel levels.
 
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