In your opinion, what is the 'gold standard' in subwoofers?

[YSC]

No, while spoiled in my own home for space here in the US, I have traveled extensively thru asia and mostly in years past as well. I think I get it and have always encouraged more americans to travel to experience what various people around the world consider "normal", usually a significant difference from those living in the US . I'm not always able to imagine everyone's room/situation for setup unless specified in the original posting either....

Man, travelling is good, but still, unless you visit some not so rich friends at their home, you can’t possibly imagine, in an average, 1 million usd apartment, the total floor space for 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom and 1 kitchen is usually in 35-40 square meters in my place.

 

[Vacceo]

I'm yet to encounter a mix with content below 10Hz though.

I think there are a couple films, like The Conjuring, that added It.

The one super famous for infrasonics is Edge of Tomorrow, but that goes around 14hz.

 

[Chrispy]

Man, travelling is good, but still, unless you visit some not so rich friends at their home, you can’t possibly imagine, in an average, 1 million usd apartment, the total floor space for 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom and 1 kitchen is usually in 35-40 square meters in my place.

There are other levels at which people survive and have visited....but in dollar values of years past so not sure quite where they align currently either for a variety of places....

ps let alone wanting to live in an apartment/condo....yuck!

 

[Willem]

For me, the gold standard is principally about good in-room response, and that inevitably requires multiple, and preferabĺy four, subs. In that scenario size quickly becomes relevant, even in a large listening room.
In so far as the gold standard implies technogical excellence and innovation, we have to look to the modern expensive compact designs like my B&W PV1d or the KEF kc62 and kf92. Whether one needs that obviously depends on room size, esthetic preference, and budget.

 

[Vacceo]

For me, the gold standard is principally about good in-room response, and that inevitably requires multiple, and preferabĺy four, subs. In that scenario size quickly becomes relevant, even in a large listening room.
In so far as the gold standard implies technogical excellence and innovation, we have to look to the modern expensive compact designs like my B&W PV1d or the KEF kc62 and kf92. Whether one needs that obviously depends on room size, esthetic preference, and budget.

I guess they are too recent and too expensive, but Perlisten subwoofers seem to be state of the art.

 

[KMO]

I'm kind of with Willem. As he said, there are 3 things you get 2 of: small size, high performance and low price.

Obviously gold standard requires high performance, so which of the other are you talking about?

If you don't care about size, then a subwoofer is easy - just make it big. There are no real hard-to-solve "quality" issues like speakers. Brands can win on price, build quality, and features, but the actual acoustics of a size-no-object subwoofer are a solved problem, so it's hard to spot anyone who's clearly ahead. You can certainly point out brands that are better value for money.

But if the two you're chasing are "low size and high performance", then that's a real engineering problem that isn't fully solved yet. There are clear leaders like KEF who can take you there with the KC62 and KF92. But you will pay for it.

 

[Sal1950]

Like speakers, I don't believe you can nail any one "best".
Too many variables in that question, how big is your room, how loud do you want it to play, how low does it need to go, do you need built-in DRC, probably a few more questions in there too.

 

[Sal1950]

But if the two you're chasing are "low size and high performance", then that's a real engineering problem that isn't fully solved yet.

There's also the fact that you can't change the laws of physics.
A few are getting the best they can from small box and drivers, but there are limits that won't go away.

 

[Adi777]

There's also the fact that you can't change the laws of physics.
A few are getting the best they can from small box and drivers, but there are limits that won't go away.

Just that's why I want to go with big DIY subwoofers

 

[KMO]

There's also the fact that you can't change the laws of physics.
A few are getting the best they can from small box and drivers, but there are limits that won't go away.

Quite, but "the best they can" is what really varies, and gives the room for a "gold standard" with a clear difference between suppliers, which isn't there for the people just going along with the laws of physics, who will all get roughly the same result.

 

[Willem]

Of course the laws of physics cannot be changed, but there are multiple engineering solutions to use them.

 

[Schollaudio]

a pair of dual manifold loaded IB woofers or two. REW measures mine under 1% THD.

REW measures my AE TD15S at 2% at 60hz and less above and below but this pair only goes to 24hz in my room.

Both sets create an effortless and ghostly low frequency ambience if the recording contains such content. Surprisingly some simple acoustic recordings do.

These systems also generate a low frequency draft that I've never heard anyone else describe. I call it "the bass winds". LOL It's not the bass impact normally associated with 15" woofer but an actual cool draft around my body.

 

[jhaider]

But if the two you're chasing are "low size and high performance", then that's a real engineering problem that isn't fully solved yet. There are clear leaders like KEF who can take you there with the KC62 and KF92. But you will pay for it.

In terms of domestic use, the KEF subs are unfortunately severely and fatally handicapped - the moving parts are exposed, which means the drivers are going to get kicked or someone’s going to knock furniture into them, etc. Such great engineering but I don’t understand their fixation with exposed drive units. So stupid.

Somebody made a great chart of output at 20Hz per volume of measured subs. IIRC JL Audio E110 and F110 are the current champions. I don’t know if that’s been updated recently, but it’s a good thing to look for.

 

[YSC]

In terms of domestic use, the KEF subs are unfortunately severely and fatally handicapped - the moving parts are exposed, which means the drivers are going to get kicked or someone’s going to knock furniture into them, etc. Such great engineering but I don’t understand their fixation with exposed drive units. So stupid.

Somebody made a great chart of output at 20Hz per volume of measured subs. IIRC JL Audio E110 and F110 are the current champions. I don’t know if that’s been updated recently, but it’s a good thing to look for.

it's on the sides, so I do think if using under desk, with front facing the user it should be fine, just don't put it in the area where ppl walk around.

 

[jhaider]

it's on the sides, so I do think if using under desk, with front facing the user it should be fine, just don't put it in the area where ppl walk around.

Until your cleaners ram it with a vacuum or your cat gets curious about the surround. Really just stupid and impractical design that makes no sense at all to the end user. I guess they save a few pence on grilles and get more new sales because the secondhand product available is often damaged.

 

[Willem]

I think that is an unfair comment. I think the design of the KC62 looks glorious, and with visible drivers you can at least still see what the box is for. My PV1d has comparable drivers, and I have never had a problem. Both the KC62 and the PV1d look a lot better in an elegant modern interior than the many drab boxes where nobody seems to have bothered to hire a good designer. But to each their own.

 

[YSC]

Until your cleaners ram it with a vacuum or your cat gets curious about the surround. Really just stupid and impractical design that makes no sense at all to the end user. I guess they save a few pence on grilles and get more new sales because the secondhand product available is often damaged.

I think it's more of a design cosmatic issue though. KEF to me is a lifestyle + great sound company rather than pure sound focused

 

[Sal1950]

Until your cleaners ram it with a vacuum or your cat gets curious about the surround. Really just stupid and impractical design that makes no sense at all to the end user. I guess they save a few pence on grilles and get more new sales because the secondhand product available is often damaged.

I feel the same way about speakers being used without the grill's.
I understand they may sound a bit better that way and it looks cool.
But none the less it's still a catastrophe just waiting to happen.
And Murphy's Law will eventually have it's way.
Very similar to the lesson I learned from not having my stand mount speakers at least
secured to their stands with a few large globs of blue-tack. Just the slightest bump
can send them tumbling to the floor.

 

[thewas]

Guess it depends on the individual living situation, I for example use several pairs of loudspeakers since many decades without grilles and not secured to their stands and never had any accident or damage and I even have cats!

 

[Prana Ferox]

I think there are a couple films, like The Conjuring, that added It.

The one super famous for infrasonics is Edge of Tomorrow, but that goes around 14hz.