In your opinion, what is the 'gold standard' in subwoofers?

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Based on my understanding there's the stuff you don't really want to buy, it's okay, but not worth the asking price - this includes subwoofers from brands like Klipsch, Polk, Sony, Wharfedale, etc.

Then there's the 'good value for money' stuff from brands like SVS, Monoprice-Monolith, and the like.

And then finally, there is the 'big name' brands like the KEF KF92, B&W, JL audio, etc.

REL is apparently, 'the best', but it might be a lot of marketing out there - I don't know, I've never owned one.

Which of these are the genuine, 'best-subwoofer', out on the market?

 

[Chrispy]

Rel I would never count as the best, more the least. I'd look to JTR or Funk for the most capable subs, maybe Deep Sea if they continue....

Most speaker brands that have subs, meh. Sub specialists are more the way to go. Many good offerings in the US particularly, elsewhere not so much....where are you?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Revel. Expensive but low distortion.

 

[Newman]

Proliferation is the gold standard.

 

[Robocop]

I've owned early REL Stadiums x2(under powered) and now have 2 x JLAudioF12's(10yr old).

Some observations two are better than one. I much prefer sealed against ported. Plenty of power to control driver. Good well built drivers. Solid cabinets. Active crossover. (I sealed the ports in the REL it improved them. They now make sealed subs.) Both subs were not cheap in the day but today cost a lot more. My JL's have been trouble free bar minor PS caps that were low spec in early models. I haven't heard anything else to compare. Unfortunately no cheap solutions for good subs, never has been. In my book JLAudio still hard to beat. Would never let them go.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Rhythmik is very good, but I don't know if they are the gold standard. Then again maybe they are if you go with multiples.

I'd think done right the Thigpen rotary with response down to 1 hz would be. They did have limited output though that may have been solved by now.

 

[Mnyb]

Rhythmic is good contender in sensible budgets.

I had REL overpriced overrated imo

 

[sweetchaos]

This was answered in my 'Subwoofer Comparison' spreadsheet:

Best performing subs	2m Peak SPL	Mfg	Model
Best performing 10hz sub:	111	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 12.5hz sub:	115.3	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 15hz sub:	119.3	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 20hz sub:	122.5	Danley Sound Labs	DTS-10
Best performing 25hz sub:	126.1	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 31.5hz sub:	129.3	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 40hz sub:	136	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 50hz sub:	141	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 63hz sub:	144	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 80hz sub:	144.2	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 100hz sub:	143.4	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 125hz sub:	140.1	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO

JTR seems to be the gold standard.

Excluding DIY subs, of course.

 

[Tangband]

Crossover Integration is alpha and omega.

If one dont fix this in a good way , the sound gonna be bad, maybe even less good than without subwoofers.

The worlds best 100000 dollar subwoofer without good integration will sound worse than a 300 dollar sub perfectly integrated.

For Genelec SAM monitor owners, the integration with the dsp crossovers LP and HP in Genelecs SAM subwoofers is already done in a good way- ie cant be bettered with analog subwoofers no matter how good they are.

Other analog speakers need both LP and HP crossovers in their analog active crossovers , those must have variable frequency crossing and variable order of the crossover slope, so they fit different speakers - an AVR Isnt good enough. You will need an external crossover.
You also always need two subwoofers for perfect integration , in stereo.

 

[FeddyLost]

Which of these are the genuine, 'best-subwoofer', out on the market?

Without goals and restrictions one can't define "best".
For example, Perlisten D215s is very nice, but big, heavy and expensive.
If you need raw peak SPL, there are lot of tables already.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Crossover Integration is alpha and omega.

If one dont fix this in a good way , the sound gonna be bad, maybe even less good than without subwoofers.

The worlds best 100000 dollar subwoofer without good integration will sound worse than a 300 dollar sub perfectly integrated.

For Genelec SAM monitor owners, the integration with the dsp crossovers LP and HP in Genelecs SAM subwoofers is already done in a good way- ie cant be bettered with analog subwoofers no matter how good they are.

Other analog speakers need both LP and HP crossovers in their analog active crossovers , those must have variable frequency crossing and variable order of the crossover slope, so they fit different speakers - an AVR Isnt good enough. You will need an external crossover.
You also always need two subwoofers for perfect integration , in stereo.

While bass is not "omnidirectional" as some believe, in a room where the bass propagates modally there is usually enough interference between the speakers, the sub, and the room modes such that the sub cannot be located easily. However, for your very good point about integration, having two can help with the modal distributions in the room and make life easier if there are one or two very bad modes to deal with. Still, its not absolutely necessary unless the sub has to be very far off-axis relative to the seating position. Then there can be issues with a bass managed system in that the sub can be located when its playing by itself, and I have run afoul of this myself. One side of the soundstage ends up with all the bass. But, the limits of locating things via ITDs alone is something like ±15 degrees, so if the sub can be kept near the center of the setup then both channels can be easily combined and the sub should not have any issues playing alone. As for stereo bass, the fact that the wavelengths are very long means that once there is more than one source, there will be no "stereo" as both ears will hear both subs simultaneously (i.e. there are no ILDs present, so no stereo).

As for the rest, yeah integration will make or break it. Good reason to have measurements at your disposal for setup.

 

[Chromatischism]

REL is apparently, 'the best'

REL and JL Audio brand themselves that way, but I don't agree. Their low and mid ranges target a certain market that isn't me, and their best may be "good" but is exorbitantly priced and outpaced by smaller players like Rythmik, PSA, HSU, JTR, Monolith...and SVS fits somewhere in between.

Other brands have their own "matching" subs (B&W, Paradigm, etc), which, even though subwoofer brand matching is not a thing, some people don't mind spending the extra for it.

I spent $3k on two ported 15" Rythmik subs, or 30% of my system budget, and would put my in-room bass up against most things out there, except for DIY. Brands like REL could not put a sub in my room that competes, especially not with how they set them up. Complete disregard for time alignment, bass management, and room correction.

My conclusion over many years and much research is to always go quality ported if you have the space for them. You'll get more for your money and you won't feel like upgrading soon.

Who is the best? I would look to brands like Perlisten, JTR, Funk Audio, even the big JBL pro subs. Really depends what your goals are.

 

[Chromatischism]

Other analog speakers need both LP and HP crossovers in their analog active crossovers , those must have variable frequency crossing and variable order of the crossover slope, so they fit different speakers - an AVR Isnt good enough. You will need an external crossover.

I don't see any reason why an AVR crossover isn't good enough or why you would "need" an external crossover. This is probably another myth.

Variable slopes can be a useful tool in certain situations but I would not call them "needed" globally, either.

You also always need two subwoofers for perfect integration , in stereo.

Agreed.

 

[FrantzM]

Rhythmik is very good, but I don't know if they are the gold standard. Then again maybe they are if you go with multiples.

I'd think done right the Thigpen rotary with response down to 1 hz would be. They did have limited output though that may have been solved by now.

View attachment 229239

Output drops like a rock above 20 Hz...

 

[FrantzM]

I would think that integration is a separate issue. And in most rooms , best most linear and smooth (in term of frequency response bass) is obtained with multiple low frequency radiators/subwoofers.

I disagree with the "stereo" in bass below 80 Hz,. I have a subwoofer in front and another in the back side of my listening room ... about 1 meter behind the listening position, a couch. I can't hear it. People that were invited in my room including, golden-eared audiophile don't hear it either, i know it is anecdotal.. The scientific reality remains that the directional clues come from frequencies well above 100 Hz.


The answer is the one provided by @sweetchaos

This was answered in my 'Subwoofer Comparison' spreadsheet:

Best performing subs	2m Peak SPL	Mfg	Model
Best performing 10hz sub:	111	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 12.5hz sub:	115.3	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 15hz sub:	119.3	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 20hz sub:	122.5	Danley Sound Labs	DTS-10
Best performing 25hz sub:	126.1	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 31.5hz sub:	129.3	JTR Speakers	Captivator 4000ULF
Best performing 40hz sub:	136	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 50hz sub:	141	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 63hz sub:	144	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 80hz sub:	144.2	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 100hz sub:	143.4	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO
Best performing 125hz sub:	140.1	JTR Speakers	Orbit Shifter PRO

JTR seems to be the gold standard.

Excluding DIY subs, of course.

Based on that the JTR Speakers Captivator 4000ULF-LP, is the Ultimate Subwoofer for any sane person with room space, it is the Gold Standard.


Peace.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

I disagree with the "stereo" in bass below 80 Hz,. I have a subwoofer in front and another in the back side of my listening room ... about 1 meter behind the listening position, a couch. I can't hear it. People that were invited in my room including, golden-eared audiophile don't hear it either, i know it is anecdotal.. The scientific reality remains that the directional clues come from frequencies well above 100 Hz.

Only place I can get stereo bass is from headphones. Since its not something we ever hear from any sound source in real life, it sounds strange and unnatural to me. With some things it might be a novel effect, though.

 

[Mnyb]

For many integration of a sub and the sub itself gets mixed up , so it becomes the same question for many ?
You have to have the insight that the sub plays in such a limited band the all notions of musically prat etc simply does not apply
And integration and room issues really is at the forefront once the sub is decent .

Just saying that many of us are not very good at the" integration game " and may blame the sub , especially if it goes really deep , then its "slow" due to all unresolved integration issues

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

For many integration of a sub and the sub itself gets mixed up , so it becomes the same question for many ?
You have to have the insight that the sub plays in such a limited band the all notions of musically prat etc simply does not apply
And integration and room issues really is at the forefront once the sub is decent .

Just saying that many of us are not very good at the" integration game " and may blame the sub , especially if it goes really deep , then its "slow" due to all unresolved integration issues

Good point in that the "speed" and "attack" comes from the main speakers, and them having a good, linear response with low distortion. Take even the "fastest" system and turn off the main speakers, and the sub just sounds like some idiot driving down the street with a trunk full of amps and car subs. All too easy to overlook that those components come from the higher frequency harmonics and/or content that is often with the lower frequency notes and such, and are not carried by the sub itself, but the main speakers.

 

[Willem]

The room is more important than the sub itself. So to deal with room modes at least two subs in mono are required at a minimum, unless in a desktop system with one precisely located listening position. On top of that one needs some form of dsp room eq such as Dirac or Multisub Optimizer. Between them, these two strategies have a far bigger impact than the quality of the sub itself.
As for that sub, you can only have two out of these three: small size, great performance/extension, and price. So, for example, subs with dual opposed drivers often give best performance for their size, but they are expensive. It is a lot cheaper to put a single driver and a quite low powered amplifier in a large box, and still have decent performance. But if you live in a tiny but expensive Manhattan appartment, a KEF KC62 may be more appropriate.

 

[abdo123]

12-inch sealed and under 750$, four of them each in a corner of the room, managed by a miniDSP 2*4.