Marantz SA-10 Review (SACD Player & DAC)

[TimF]

This device the SA-10, I liken it to a Super Bowl ring. They are in the same price range too.

 

[PeteL]

Can you provide a citation for this? As far as I understand it, the digital signal from either input should be fed directly into the DAC for conversion without any additional processing.

I am no expert really, maybe some can answer better, but I did think that there was error correction mechanism in optical reading and conversion from optical to data. Just a guess but maybe some do better than others? I do know that more generally speaking digital does not equate perfect. bad stuff can happen but It may be a non issue, just a guess here, and just saying that we can't assume perfection just because...

 

[sonci99]

Have you ever properly tested all of these things you're asserting?

I would put a significant chunk of money on you being unable to tell the difference in a blind test between your CD player of preference, an Oppo, and a 16/44 rip of your favourite CD played through a $300 Topping DAC, assuming other equipment is the same and volume level is matched between sources.

It may be, and in that case you may win some money, but I just shared my experience, and that's all..

 

[DonR]

Sure the USB input has to go through a conversion process to SPDIF and the laser signal cannot be fed directly into the DAC chip.

Most USB DAC chips have a SPDIF output that is fed from the same signal as the DAC circuit is.

 

[Angsty]

You would be surprised what the wife does with audio gear once it's no longer needed. Most husbands don't talk about the price tag and the wife is happy to have the space back. The only reason it may not end up in the store is if one of the Goodwill employees snags it when it comes in.

When I pass, I think my wife and family will have the wherewithal to get an estimate on my audio equipment before selling or sending to Goodwill. She may not know the specific price tags, but she knows better than to put it out by the curb for pickup.

I still buy and use CDs; a new one just arrived in the mail today. I don't own any SACDs. Even though this Marantz unit is "competent", it's far from being a great value. Perhaps I've been lucky, but my nearly 20 year-old CD players still work perfectly well despite not being TOTL. I don't see a motivator to acquire this specific unit other than money burning a hole in one's pocket. But, I can see the motivation to buy a "last" SACD player that lasts.

That being said, a $250 Sony UBP-X700/M universal disc player probably performs about as well on the measurements. Dedicated SACD players tend to cost a lot more due to the target market segment.

@amirm - the Sony UBP-X800M2 plays SACDs and has an Ethernet connection for $330. Could it be tested using your standard test suite if you had one?

 

[voodooless]

I am no expert really, maybe some can answer better, but I did think that there was error correction mechanism in optical reading and conversion from optical to data. Just a guess but maybe some do better than other? I do know that more generally speaking digital does not equate perfect. bad stuff can happen but It may be a non issue, just a guess here, and just saying that we can't assume perfection just because...

For this kind of money, I would expect the thing to read an average CD totally error-free unless the CD is so scratched that that is just impossible. I can rip a CD error-free with 8x speed (or better) with a cheap USB DVD burner, so this thing better deliver! From that point of view, the data stream from a CD or from USB is basically identical, and one would expect identical measurements.

 

[Celty]

When I pass, I think my wife and family will have the wherewithal to get an estimate on my audio equipment before selling or sending to Goodwill. She may not know the specific price tags, but she knows better than to put it out by the curb for pickup.

I still buy and use CDs; a new one just arrived in the mail today. I don't own any SACDs. Even though this Marantz unit is "competent", it's far from being a great value. Perhaps I've been lucky, but my nearly 20 year-old CD players still work perfectly well despite not being TOTL. I don't see a motivator to acquire this specific unit other than money burning a hole in one's pocket. But, I can see the motivation to buy a "last" SACD player that lasts.

That being said, a $250 Sony UBP-X700/M universal disc player probably performs about as well on the measurements. Dedicated SACD players tend to cost a lot more due to the target market segment.

@amirm - the Sony UBP-X800M2 plays SACDs and has an Ethernet connection for $330. Could it be tested using your standard test suite if you had one?

Ha, you were reading my mind, I'd love to see Amirm review the Sony UBP-X800M2.

 

[PeteL]

For this kind of money, I would expect the thing to read an average CD totally error-free unless the CD is so scratched that that is just impossible. I can rip a CD error-free with 8x speed (or better) with a cheap USB DVD burner, so this thing better deliver! From that point of view, the data stream from a CD or from USB is basically identical, and one would expect identical measurements.

Yes but that's totally different. Ripping is not real time streaming, it's data transfer, it will error check and error correct as many time as needed until the checksum match. This is buffer based error correction. You may be right that in your assumption but the 2 cases you compare are not comparable.

 

[Angsty]

Correct. It's primary reason for existence is to play CDs and SACDs.

Unfortunately, its CD published specifications are most disappointing for 2022.

View attachment 192375
One of my favourite Sony players, which, when tested was considerably better than spec. In 1989, 33 years ago...

View attachment 192380

I think you have made this point before, but it bears repeating. DACs for the accurate reproduction of CD/SACD output is a solved problem and has been for a long time. What you can pay more for are aesthetics, usability and build quality, which are a bit harder to quantify in "value".

 

[voodooless]

Yes but that's totally different. Ripping is not real time streaming, it's data transfer, it will error check and error correct as many time as needed until the checksum match. This is buffer based erroc correction. You may be right that in your assumption but the 2 cases you compare are not comparable.

What prevents the drive from doing it the exact same way? In any case, rereading a sector is agonizingly slow. It can’t do that a lot with 8x speed. Every portable Discman from the 90’s managed this just fine.

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

I guess amir thinks the DAC performance isn't going to improve by using a CD, but we'll never know...

Why would it? Both send a digital signal to the same DAC. But I'm an electronics amateur, so I'll let you tell me.

 

[SimpleTheater]

I'm totally baffled by who is in the market for these $7-$10,000 CD players.

Ok, I don't quite fall into your numbers, but as someone who spent $3,000 on a Yamaha CD-S2100 I can tell you why I spent much more than a similar product (e.g. buying a second OPPO).

My reasons are as follows:
1. Belief (marketing hype, I'm not sure) that the Yamaha was built to last. I will never need another CD/SACD player.
2. Silent operation. My OPPO was quiet, but this Yamaha doesn't make a sound.
3. Looks.
4. Works with my A-S2100 amplifier remote
5. Best sound imaginable. As long as some fool (I won't do it) doesn't send their Yamaha to @amirm for testing, I will continue to fervently and faithfully believe the marketing hype that Yamaha made the perfect sounding CD/SACD player.

 

[PeteL]

What prevents the drive from doing it the exact same way? In any case, rereading a sector is agonizingly slow. It can’t do that a lot with 8x speed. Every portable Discman from the 90’s managed this just fine.

It's a good question, but it's just asking why standards are what they are... It's not the manufacturer that decides that. Like for example AOIP is packet based and have full error correction, USB audio and SPDIF don't If you have issue with Audio over IP, it will lag and stutter, the a negative but it will be bit perfect, In USB in spdif it will keep playing but data integrity is not guaranteed. Why? We have to ask the peoples that have put these protocols in place. For the rest I am sorry I am not familiar with this. You are saying that this Marantz is reading sectors slower than discmans? Not sure what you mean or what it refers to. I didn't know discman where a different animal than regular cd players.

 

[symphara]

The CD mechanism in this configuration will often go through a laser P/U and a disc motor or more in their life. So for this kind of money I would expect service/support.

You're probably young, which is great. If you'd be 67, there's a good chance this player would last for the rest of your life.

@Herbert Perhaps I gave the impression that I approve or defend the use-case. I don't (in fact I don't care). I just replied to @SuicideSquid who said he's completely baffled.

It's not unreasonable to use a CD/SACD player with physical media and ignore streaming/NAS, particularly for elderly people who don't mess that much with smartphones & co. You rightfully scoff at the price (it's overpriced) but for some people that just doesn't matter as much.

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Whether your music is coming into the DAC from the USB input or from the CD laser, it still has to be converted from digital to analog, and it's going through the same DAC regardless.

I know, right?

 

[Doodski]

For this kind of money, I would expect the thing to read an average CD totally error-free unless the CD is so scratched that that is just impossible. I can rip a CD error-free with 8x speed (or better) with a cheap USB DVD burner, so this thing better deliver! From that point of view, the data stream from a CD or from USB is basically identical, and one would expect identical measurements.

This image is a zoomable image of the Philips Test Sample calibration CD for servo checking and adjustment of the RF eye pattern. The standard of the readability can be seen with the laser marks (silk-screening too?) on the CD surface that block the laser from the surface of the CD.

Some old pics of CD player.

Philips test unit to establish the Compact Disc format - DutchAudioClassics.nl

DutchAudioClassics.nl - Photos and information of classic Marantz & Philips cd-players

www.dutchaudioclassics.nl

 

[voodooless]

It's a good question, but it's just asking why standards are what they are... It's not the manufacturer that decides that.

There is no problem with standards or protocols here. It’s exactly the choice of the manufacturer to it this way or another. These things are technically very much feasible.

 

[PeteL]

There is no problem with standards or protocols here. It’s exactly the choice of the manufacturer to it this way or another. These things are technically very much feasible.

Can you listen to your CD while you are ripping it?

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Most USB DAC chips have a SPDIF output that is fed from the same signal as the DAC circuit is.

As I said USB in SPDIF out, not the same as feeding an SPDIF signal into the chip. Whichever way you look at it internal or external a conversion process is needed.

 

[voodooless]

Can you listen to your CD while you are ripping it?

Sure, why not. It’s just a software problem.

You are saying that this Marantz is reading sectors slower than discmans?

I don’t know, there are many options. Possibly the drive is good as it is and doesn’t need any re-reading of sectors. Point is: for this money, it better be good, no matter how they solve it.

Not sure what you mean or what it refers to. I didn't know discman where a different animal than regular cd players.

Kinda. They have a buffer of several seconds to counteract loss of tracking due to movement of the drive, but that will also let it re-read error sections in the hope that next time, it can be read error-free.