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Yamaha RX-A8A (Japanese website)

Lutijen

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But wouldn't those reports still need to be verified by an independent reviewer? They could send us anything in that report companies have tried to mislead the consumer before
Agreed, but at least we would see some genuine effort to perform in-house preliminary tests. There have not been major issues with monitor factory calibration reports. Sure, there might be a few rogue ones, but this in-house testing needs to become a standard and part of internal quality assurance. They need to measure initial SINAD for every unit in factories, so as to know what is coming out to consumers. Reviewers are there to confirm, or not, those measurements, and the process could be improved over time. But it needs to start in the first place.
 

lewdish

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I just picked up an A8A and getting everything hooked up. I noticed that my Apple TV will pass hdr to my television if hooked up directly, but if I pass the signal through the receiver, 4k sd is the best it will do. Is this something that will be fixed by the coming firmware upgrade?
How is the subjective performance for you? Is the new Ypao a significant upgrade?
 

diablo

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My subjective impression is that YPAO is better. I've just run it since I got the new firmware, version 1.22.

It only applied simple adjustments to my subs, though they are nearly right now. Maybe I'll throw away my DSpeaker Antimode 2??

Edit: After playing more material I found that the bass eq not nearly right. It got the dip in the right place but didn't cut enough. On playing The Pretenders at Austin City Limits (one of my test plays) I got one-note thumping bass. :( Since applied cut of -19.5 as indicated by REW. Sounds much better.

YPAONatural.jpg


Though could do with a slight lift between 50-60 Hz which I can apply in Manual settings.

Not sure what the 'Low Frequency' mode is about. That still looks as ineffective as firmwars 1.14.

YPAOLF.jpg
 
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ozric

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Not sure what the 'Low Frequency' mode is about. That still looks as ineffective as firmwars 1.14.

As I understand, the low freq mode sets YPAO for correcting bass below 250Hz (I think, might be a little higher). So it can use most of the PEQ bands just for that region.

The Yamaha rep in one of Audioholics interviews said that it will determine the problem frequencies, but the Q and Gain are set to default values, and manual measurement and intervention is necessary to complete the correction.

I could have misunderstood that part of the interview though. It was during the YPAO discussion in the interview with Phil Shea at Audioholics.

I hope Gene is going to discuss low freq mode more in depth in the full review. Or maybe make a separate short video to explain how to use that option.
 

diablo

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As I understand, the low freq mode sets YPAO for correcting bass below 250Hz (I think, might be a little higher). So it can use most of the PEQ bands just for that region.

The Yamaha rep in one of Audioholics interviews said that it will determine the problem frequencies, but the Q and Gain are set to default values, and manual measurement and intervention is necessary to complete the correction.

I could have misunderstood that part of the interview though. It was during the YPAO discussion in the interview with Phil Shea at Audioholics.

I hope Gene is going to discuss low freq mode more in depth in the full review. Or maybe make a separate short video to explain how to use that option.
I have a vague memory of that from when I watched it a few weeks ago. I think there was mention of REW being involved in setting it up - then adjusting it manually.
That's okay with me as I have a Umik-1 and REW.
The great thing is that there are a lot more frequencies available to adjust. The old YPAO had only about 8 frequencies below 80Hz IIRC.
But yes, another vid would be good. :)
 

xcomp666

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I just got some updates from both stores. Seems that my pre-orders (A6A and A8A) are on way! :cool: Now I have to decide which one I should stick with. Since we don't have a decent review for the A6A model, I think that A8A it's a safe choice. What do you think guys?
 

Lutijen

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Since we don't have a decent review for the A6A model, I think that A8A it's a safe choice. What do you think guys?
None of models has had a decent review published and, worringly, Gene from Audioholics has haulted his A6A review to get answers from Yamaha. He is clearly not happy with what he found in SINAD measures.
 

xcomp666

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536EAEB9-0115-4126-894E-844F1F1E1C44.jpeg
I got my beast yesterday (almost bought the A8A model, but it doesn't fit in the tv cabinet . I didn't have much time to play around. I just set up the RX-A6A and run ypao. My first impressions are very positive. pure stereo mode is perfect. I could hear some jazz and rock and roll music. Much much better than my previous Denon x4700h. Definitely one/two step over! Bass with big punch/deep and low distortion Mids and the highs shines !

I will do some tests with movies today. The only thing that I don’t like very well was the user interface. Specifically for one that comes from D/M products ( past 9 years).
speakers :

Klipsch RP-280FA

Klipsch R-52C

Klipsch R-110SW

2x musiccast 20
 
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gonzoucab

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Send it to Ammir!!!!!!


View attachment 163628I got my beast yesterday (almost bought the A8A model, but it doesn't fit in the tv cabinet . I didn't have much time to play around. I just set up the RX-A6A and run ypao. My first impressions are very positive. pure stereo mode is perfect. I could hear some jazz and rock and roll music. Much much better than my previous Denon x4700h. Definitely one/two step over! Bass with big punch/deep and low distortion Mids and the highs shines !

I will do some tests with movies today. The only thing that I don’t like very well was the user interface. Specifically for one that comes from D/M products ( past 9 years).
speakers :

Klipsch RP-280FA

Klipsch R-52C

Klipsch R-110SW

2x musiccast 20
 

karyuudo

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View attachment 163628I got my beast yesterday (almost bought the A8A model, but it doesn't fit in the tv cabinet . I didn't have much time to play around. I just set up the RX-A6A and run ypao. My first impressions are very positive. pure stereo mode is perfect. I could hear some jazz and rock and roll music. Much much better than my previous Denon x4700h. Definitely one/two step over! Bass with big punch/deep and low distortion Mids and the highs shines !

I will do some tests with movies today. The only thing that I don’t like very well was the user interface. Specifically for one that comes from D/M products ( past 9 years).
speakers :

Klipsch RP-280FA

Klipsch R-52C

Klipsch R-110SW

2x musiccast 20
Congrats on your purchase! Glad to hear your initial impressions are positive! :)
 

2x4

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How is the subjective performance for you? Is the new Ypao a significant upgrade?
All I have to compare it to is the 15 year old Denon 3805 it replaced, so I don’t really know about the Ypao upgrade. I will say that overall I’m really happy with the sound vs my old receiver. For home theater duty it’s definitely an upgrade. Musically, it’s on a whole different level.
 

gonzoucab

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All I have to compare it to is the 15 year old Denon 3805 it replaced, so I don’t really know about the Ypao upgrade. I will say that overall I’m really happy with the sound vs my old receiver. For home theater duty it’s definitely an upgrade. Musically, it’s on a whole different level.
Send it to ammir, to public acclaims!
 

EB1000

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Here are some updates right from a Yamaha insider.

The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).

So the bottom line, you should avoid the new line of Yamaha AVRs until after the second half of 2022 (component shortages is the blame for the long delay).

here is another source that confirmed all of the above (use Google translate):


I personally spoke with the manager of the official local Yamaha dealer, and he has also confirmed all of the above.

So A6A, if finally off my list for good. I'll wait for either Onkyo RZ70 (coming in April 2022) or Denon X6800H (mid 2022).
 
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peng

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Here are some updates right from a Yamaha insider mouth.

The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).

So the bottom line, you should avoid the new line of Yamaha AVRs until after the second half of 2022 (component shortages is the blame for the long delay).

here is another source that confirmed all of the above (use Google translate):


I personally spore with the manager of the official local Yamaha dealer, and he has also confirmed all of the above.

So A6A, if finally off my list for good. I'll wait for either Onkyo RZ70 (coming in April 2022) or Denon X6800H (mid 2022).

On the low SINAD on the channels other than the FL/FR, Gene of AH did talk about it on his first video review but unless I missed some parts, he did not talk about that issue at all in his 2nd/follow up/final review so I wonder if that issue has been dealt with already? Gene did say in the first video that he contacted Yamaha and was hoping they would be fixing it via FW but now your source seems to contradict that.. I would think that your "insider mouth" should know better than Gene. It would be nice if Yamaha can be more transparent on this, such as say something about the whole thing on their website.
 

Oniiz86

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So first Gene discovered that the Yamaha CX-A5200 pre/pro exhibited XLR distortion on the main FL/FR channels which couldn't be rectified via a firmware update, it was a hardware related problem & now this with the latest 2020/21 lineup, is it simply engineering incompetence or the fact that these weren't thoroughly tested even though Yamaha had plenty of time as they didn't have a 2019 refresh in their AVR lineup.
 

OldAndSlowDev

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So first Gene discovered that the Yamaha CX-A5200 pre/pro exhibited XLR distortion on the main FL/FR channels which couldn't be rectified via a firmware update, it was a hardware related problem & now this with the latest 2020/21 lineup, is it simply engineering incompetence or the fact that these weren't thoroughly tested even though Yamaha had plenty of time as they didn't have a 2019 refresh in their AVR lineup.
Or maybe Yamaha isn't focusing on that aspect of the amp. These measurements are only acknowledged by a very niche hyper enthusiastic market. For most customers, the choice will be done by listening to the amp back and forth with the same price Denon, Marantz, Onkyo in an audio shop and these won't be audible in the first run (I don't even know if it's actually audible by... me). I totally understand that we all love top of specs measurements because that's the only thing that can be scientifically measured. But the way an amp sound is a matter of taste, and all top of the line amp from any brand perform good enough.

Currently owning a RX-A8A and I am really happy (understatement, I am actually amazed) with it. I mostly listen to stereo music, so I am not that concerned by surround and center speakers "bad sinad" (and honestly I don't care, I am not hearing distortion while watching a movie, my attention is on what is happening, in opposition to the focus I have on the sound while listening to music).

Would be curious to see expert point of views about the impact of those bad SINAD in the final sound stage.

My two cents.
 
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EB1000

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Or maybe Yamaha isn't focusing on that aspect of the amp. These measurements are only acknowledged by a very niche hyper enthusiastic market. For most customers, the choice will be done by listening to the amp back and forth with the same price Denon, Marantz, Onkyo in an audio shop and these won't be audible in the first run (I don't even know if it's actually audible by... me). I totally understand that we all love top of specs measurements because that's the only thing that can be scientifically measured. But the way an amp sound is a matter of taste, and all top of the line amp from any brand perform good enough.

Currently owning a RX-A8A and I am really happy (understatement, I am actually amazed) with it. I mostly listen to stereo music, so I am not that concerned by surround and center speakers "bad sinad" (and honestly I don't care, I am not hearing distortion while watching a movie, my attention is on what is happening, in opposition to the focus I have on the sound while listening to music).

Would be curious to see expert point of views about the impact of those bad SINAD in the final sound stage.

My two cents.
Have you ran YPAO with more than 3 points? If so, check the results, they're completely off. Have you tried using AI with Netflix's Atmos? You should hear the dialog leaking from the front heights.. There are many more bugs and the sound compared to any other AVR such as the Onkyo RZ50 or Denon X4700H, is very disappointing, according to many user reports.

Here is an impression example, from a user after 2 months of usage (auto translated from by Google):
We connected the A8 in a composition of 7.2.4 There are 2 subwoofers and 4 speakers in the ceiling. We connected 3 different sources to it. Projector and TV.
We performed a basic calibration for initial measurements and settings. And here we encountered a first problem the distances of the speakers came out wrong.
The calibration was performed perfectly according to the book. We did 3 more tests and they all came out wrong. In the last test we used a microphone Of the 5200 without change. [After 2 updates of - YAMAHA the problem is solved but not in all cases] When calibrating
For more than 3 locations always one of the channels responds incorrectly [not always the same channel] There is a BUG Report to YAMAHA and they are aware of the problem. Currently the solution is to calibrate to only 3 locations.
I wrote that it was a short impression and I will explain. There are 2 main reasons.
1. Currently the device is not really ready for a real and comprehensive test. The delay in updating HDMI also hurts things and companions [HDCP 2.3 And its capabilities like - EARC] all these do not work and limit / impair the working capabilities of the receiver. According to the manufacturer should be updated by the end of the year. We also could not test the AURO 3D and it should be updated in the coming weeks.
2. There are some serious BUGS that impair the working capabilities of the receiver. [We reported and the manufacturer is aware of the issues and is trying to reach a solution as soon as possible . [But some still exist for almost 90 days without a solution] The worst BUG is that the receiver is not capable decoding DDP and this means that it is not possible for ATMOS via DDP and since this is currently the main way from STREAMING it serious problem .

Another problem in the same context is if you try to use AI while using ATMOS DDP the sounds do not come for the right speakers [for example the CENTER comes from the ceiling] some things happen when the ATMOS DDP is running.
1. The audio just disappears / stops working. 2. The receiver freezes and stops operating, which requires disconnection from the power supply and restarting. but no, The settings are always saved. YAMAHA admit that the problem exists but in their opinion it only happens with the use of HBO MAX. But this not really the situation. This has happened to us with almost every source and every input on the receiver. [We tried them all] Another problem is that there is - LAG
Seriously when trying to watch DV but - YAMAHA claim that it will work out after updating the HDMI. Another thing is
That there are explosion sounds from the speakers [POP] at different levels in the transition between the different sources. YAMAHA is aware of all the problems that I mentioned and at least regarding some of them they announced that they are trying to reach a solution. After trials there are a number of temporary ways / solutions and workarounds to try to get to the desired audio but at the moment it is in detours and not always accurate. So right now everyone is waiting for YAMAHA to come up with solutions to at least some of the problems.

An example of what happens in a receiver while using DDP is how the audio just disappears over and over again and this is just one problem.

In light of the whole situation as it is at the moment there was really no point in conducting a full examination and review. We made 2 brief comparisons just out of curiosity
One [blind] comparison was with YAMAHA's A3080 at only 7.1 channels. There were 4 present and 3 did not notice
In difference and one thought the A8 sounded better [this is the friend who purchased the receiver] We all agreed that the frequency management system
The lower performs better but still not well enough compared to other manufacturers. The second comparison was compared to the RZ50
The new ONKYO and here everyone agreed that the RZ50 sounds better and its price is less than 50%. For the calibration system of - DIRAC
There is a large part in the differences [there is nothing to compare in the results] but for any serious test / comparison one must wait for the good performance of the A8. [Obviously any comparison of audio is completely subjective]

GENE from AH has decided not to wait any longer for YAMAHA and will soon publish his test results regarding the A6.
All the information is definitely not good. He allowed YAMAHA more than 60 days to comment on how they were going to solve the problems
The mains he found [absorbed a lot of fire on the long wait] and now decided it was time. We will wait for the results including the various measurements post Scriptum. The purchased receiver was returned to the store before 60 days.
 
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OldAndSlowDev

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Have you ran YPAO with more than 3 points? If so, check the results, they're completely off. Have you tried using AI with Netflix's Atmos? You should hear the dialog leaking from the front heights.. There are many more bugs and the sound compared to any other AVR such as the Onkyo RZ50 or Denon X4700H, is very disappointing, according to many user reports.

Here is an impression example, from a user after 2 months of usage (auto translated from by Google):
We connected the A8 in a composition of 7.2.4 There are 2 subwoofers and 4 speakers in the ceiling. We connected 3 different sources to it. Projector and TV.
We performed a basic calibration for initial measurements and settings. And here we encountered a first problem the distances of the speakers came out wrong.
The calibration was performed perfectly according to the book. We did 3 more tests and they all came out wrong. In the last test we used a microphone Of the 5200 without change. [After 2 updates of - YAMAHA the problem is solved but not in all cases] When calibrating
For more than 3 locations always one of the channels responds incorrectly [not always the same channel] There is a BUG Report to YAMAHA and they are aware of the problem. Currently the solution is to calibrate to only 3 locations.
I wrote that it was a short impression and I will explain. There are 2 main reasons.
1. Currently the device is not really ready for a real and comprehensive test. The delay in updating HDMI also hurts things and companions [HDCP 2.3 And its capabilities like - EARC] all these do not work and limit / impair the working capabilities of the receiver. According to the manufacturer should be updated by the end of the year. We also could not test the AURO 3D and it should be updated in the coming weeks.
2. There are some serious BUGS that impair the working capabilities of the receiver. [We reported and the manufacturer is aware of the issues and is trying to reach a solution as soon as possible . [But some still exist for almost 90 days without a solution] The worst BUG is that the receiver is not capable decoding DDP and this means that it is not possible for ATMOS via DDP and since this is currently the main way from STREAMING it serious problem .

Another problem in the same context is if you try to use AI while using ATMOS DDP the sounds do not come for the right speakers [for example the CENTER comes from the ceiling] some things happen when the ATMOS DDP is running.
1. The audio just disappears / stops working. 2. The receiver freezes and stops operating, which requires disconnection from the power supply and restarting. but no, The settings are always saved. YAMAHA admit that the problem exists but in their opinion it only happens with the use of HBO MAX. But this not really the situation. This has happened to us with almost every source and every input on the receiver. [We tried them all] Another problem is that there is - LAG
Seriously when trying to watch DV but - YAMAHA claim that it will work out after updating the HDMI. Another thing is
That there are explosion sounds from the speakers [POP] at different levels in the transition between the different sources. YAMAHA is aware of all the problems that I mentioned and at least regarding some of them they announced that they are trying to reach a solution. After trials there are a number of temporary ways / solutions and workarounds to try to get to the desired audio but at the moment it is in detours and not always accurate. So right now everyone is waiting for YAMAHA to come up with solutions to at least some of the problems.

An example of what happens in a receiver while using DDP is how the audio just disappears over and over again and this is just one problem.

In light of the whole situation as it is at the moment there was really no point in conducting a full examination and review. We made 2 brief comparisons just out of curiosity
One [blind] comparison was with YAMAHA's A3080 at only 7.1 channels. There were 4 present and 3 did not notice
In difference and one thought the A8 sounded better [this is the friend who purchased the receiver] We all agreed that the frequency management system
The lower performs better but still not well enough compared to other manufacturers. The second comparison was compared to the RZ50
The new ONKYO and here everyone agreed that the RZ50 sounds better and its price is less than 50%. For the calibration system of - DIRAC
There is a large part in the differences [there is nothing to compare in the results] but for any serious test / comparison one must wait for the good performance of the A8. [Obviously any comparison of audio is completely subjective]

GENE from AH has decided not to wait any longer for YAMAHA and will soon publish his test results regarding the A6.
All the information is definitely not good. He allowed YAMAHA more than 60 days to comment on how they were going to solve the problems
The mains he found [absorbed a lot of fire on the long wait] and now decided it was time. We will wait for the results including the various measurements post Scriptum. The purchased receiver was returned to the store before 60 days.
Yes I can totally understand that these are unacceptable flaws. I was more focused on the bad SINAD measurements for center and surround channels. That's what I was commenting about.

For my use, I did not notice any issue with YPAO but I use a single position calibration because I am alone to listen 90% of the time. I didn't experienced missing things with AI Atmos but it can simply be that without anything to compare with I didn't noticed it.
As this is a new platform, I can imagine how many issues are still to be resolved. It's any new advanced electronic devices, it will take a lot of update to become mature. I don't mean it's normal to reach the consumer market with lacking features or bugged features. I just know it's now the way it works.

If there are Sound United better alternative, good for customers. In my choice, the A8A was way cheaper than Denon counterpart and the 7 hdmi 2.1 inputs are an important feature to me (which isn't delivered yet, I know). So that was the selling points. And none of the issues you are mentioning are important to me cause I didn't experimented any of them.

But still, I am really curious about what's around the corner with Gene's review.
 
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