Yamaha RX-A8A (Japanese website)

[xcomp666]

Here are some updates right from a Yamaha insider.

The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).

So the bottom line, you should avoid the new line of Yamaha AVRs until after the second half of 2022 (component shortages is the blame for the long delay).

here is another source that confirmed all of the above (use Google translate):

YAMAHA - A8A התרשמות ראשונה . - מגזין HT

YAMAHA - A8A התרשמות ראשונה . | אודיו בקולנוע-ביתי ופורמטים רב-ערוציים - רסיברים, מגברי כח-רב ערוציים, פרוססורי-אודיו וכו'

htmag.co.il

I personally spoke with the manager of the official local Yamaha dealer, and he has also confirmed all of the above.

So A6A, if finally off my list for good. I'll wait for either Onkyo RZ70 (coming in April 2022) or Denon X6800H (mid 2022).

Audiophile Conspiracy Theories! I am trusting in my ears! My RX-A6A sounds pretty good! Comments from those who have had D&M in the past 11 years.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Audiophile Conspiracy Theories! I am trusting in my ears! My RX-A6A sounds pretty good! Comments from those who have had D&M in the past 11 years.

I had a Denon before the Yamaha, but a very old one. A Denon AVC-A1D. Rock solid, but now I have the Yamaha I realize the Denon was obviously sounding like s..t.
I have lost twenty years of good music with sticking to that amp (not saying current Denon aren't sounding good, there are twenty years of progress between the Denon AVC-A1D and the Yamaha RX-A8A).

 

[xcomp666]

I had a Denon before the Yamaha, but a very old one. A Denon AVC-A1D. Rock solid, but now I have the Yamaha I realize the Denon was obviously sounding like s..t.
I have lost twenty years of good music with sticking to that amp (not saying current Denon aren't sounding good, there are twenty years of progress between the Denon AVC-A1D and the Yamaha RX-A8A).

I had a Denon x4700H for almost 1 year and I can say in Stereo Mode, my current RX-A6A sounds much better than my previous Denon. Bonus It is running cooler as well.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

I had a Denon x4700H for almost 1 year and I can say in Stereo Mode, my current RX-A6A sounds much better than my previous Denon. Bonus It is running cooler as well.

I have that feeling too, in Stereo I finally get the sound I was looking for for more than twenty five years. In my eighteens I had the chance to listen to Roger Waters Amuse to death in an Audio Shop on a very high-end system. Since then I was looking forward to get the same feeling while listening to music in my home. It took me twenty five years (not meaning it wasn't possible before, life is life, I didn't spent some time and money to get this earlier) but since I got my Yamaha, I finally have this sound at home, I wake up happy, working with amazing music all day long, then stop working, and listen music until midnight. It's just pure madness to my ears so I am definitively happy. But as a nerd I will also be a bit disappointed if there are actually some major flaws revealed by Gene or Amir in an in-depth review.

 

[Technomania]

Currently owning a RX-A8A and I am really happy (understatement, I am actually amazed) with it. I mostly listen to stereo music, so I am not that concerned by surround and center speakers "bad sinad" (and honestly I don't care, I am not hearing distortion while watching a movie, my attention is on what is happening, in opposition to the focus I have on the sound while listening to music).

It's great that you are personally happy with the device and you do accept that the model was not designed specifically for your usage scenario. Great too. In AV community, we also care about its versatility. It is marketed as a very versatile and expensive device, capable of meeting needs of complex multi-channel settings. Well, as users are receiving new units, they are discovering issues. And this is even before any ink is spilled on future reliability of HDMI 2.1 package, which is delayed for almost two years from its annoucement in CES 2020.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

It's great that you are personally happy with the device and you do accept that the model was not designed specifically for your usage scenario. Great too. In AV community, we also care about its versatility. It is marketed as a very versatile and expensive device, capable of meeting needs of complex multi-channel settings. Well, as users are receiving new units, they are discovering issues. And this is even before any ink is spilled on future reliability of HDMI 2.1 package, which is delayed for almost two years from its annoucement in CES 2020.

Yes versatility is very important to me. My use is 60% music, 30% movies and 10% gaming so I am expecting all features to work properly. Right now I am in contact with Dolby about PC Atmos gaming that isn't working with my setup, so I am aware about issues. But some issues are Yamaha related, some are Dolby, some are TV manufacturers. It's not fun to have to help them to solve issues, but it's the only thing I can do so...

I am not pretending it's not legit to ask for a 110dB SINAD on all channels, or having Netflix Atmos outputting center signal on center speaker and not the ceiling speakers as mentioned. I totally understand and I am not trying to defend the product I am using to convince myself it's the "best" or "perfect". It's not, but it's far from being a bad product too.

I am really hoping that Yamaha will solve most of the issues that can be solved through a firmware update. And Dolby to fix Dolby Atmos on Windows 11 while gaming (for videos I have no issue playing them from my PC to the AVR to the TV, but I also experiment some signal loss because I am using a FiberCommand optical hdmi 2.1 extender so there are so many things involved in making the whole chain working...)

 

[lewdish]

Here are some updates right from a Yamaha insider.

The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).

So the bottom line, you should avoid the new line of Yamaha AVRs until after the second half of 2022 (component shortages is the blame for the long delay).

here is another source that confirmed all of the above (use Google translate):

YAMAHA - A8A התרשמות ראשונה . - מגזין HT

YAMAHA - A8A התרשמות ראשונה . | אודיו בקולנוע-ביתי ופורמטים רב-ערוציים - רסיברים, מגברי כח-רב ערוציים, פרוססורי-אודיו וכו'

htmag.co.il

I personally spoke with the manager of the official local Yamaha dealer, and he has also confirmed all of the above.

So A6A, if finally off my list for good. I'll wait for either Onkyo RZ70 (coming in April 2022) or Denon X6800H (mid 2022).

Any clues as to if the replacement components will be free for those who bought already?

 

[valerianf]

Reading this thread I am surprised that Yamaha has took a so bad turn: ugly design of the front panel, buggy implementation, inflated prices.
After owning a RX-V1400 and a RX-A700, my next AVR will be a Onkyo TX RZ50.
I am waiting for Amir to test it.

 

[oupee]

I had a Denon x4700H for almost 1 year and I can say in Stereo Mode, my current RX-A6A sounds much better than my previous Denon. Bonus It is running cooler as well.

I have the same experience with the X4700H, I returned it within a fortnight. I'm surprised you weren't attacked here, that you're deaf or that you hear what you want

 

[lewdish]

Anyone else contacted Yamaha about the potential hardware sinad related issue? I asked them about it and this was the response I got

"Thanks for your email, and for your interest in our receiver. I can confirm we are not having any issues like this. I have this receiver in my living room and make use of multi-point calibration and Surround AI and have no issues with audio imaging or decoding, nor are there any issues with distortion on any of the channels."


Either it's a misinformed rep or maybe Yamaha really isn't aware of any issues.

 

[EB1000]

Anyone else contacted Yamaha about the potential hardware sinad related issue? I asked them about it and this was the response I got

"Thanks for your email, and for your interest in our receiver. I can confirm we are not having any issues like this. I have this receiver in my living room and make use of multi-point calibration and Surround AI and have no issues with audio imaging or decoding, nor are there any issues with distortion on any of the channels."


Either it's a misinformed rep or maybe Yamaha really isn't aware of any issues.

I doubt that a Yamaha rep knows what SINAD even means. The reps are not engineers. Gene from Audioholics showed mixed results with some channels reaching 98dB while others with only 64dB. Fore some reason, he decided not to publish the review he finished 3 month ago...

 

[ozric]

So much for Gene's integrity... I guess Yamaha told him not to release it. Amir will have to review it in order to find the actual measurements.

 

[squeedle]

I thought Gene's review was still forthcoming after Yamaha confirmed his findings. Did he state that he was shelving it?

 

[ozric]

We'll see, I (perhaps erroneously) thought the review was completed while waiting for Yamaha's confirmation. It has been a while since they confirmed it.

I can't imagine Yamaha wants a review detailing a 'hot mess' to make it to publication. I would imagine they would prefer the usual magazine subjective reviews with no mention of bugs or SINAD failures.

 

[squeedle]

We'll see, I (perhaps erroneously) thought the review was completed while waiting for Yamaha's confirmation. It has been a while since they confirmed it.

I can't imagine Yamaha wants a review detailing a 'hot mess' to make it to publication. I would imagine they would prefer the usual magazine subjective reviews with no mention of bugs or SINAD failures.

Hopefully it doesn't matter what they want and Gene will publish his measurements. He sure is dragging his feet though. And very mum on updates. Annoying.

 

[Technomania]

Gene from Audioholics showed mixed results with some channels reaching 98dB while others with only 64dB. Fore some reason, he decided not to publish the review he finished 3 month ago...

Please stop spreading misinformation about timeline. It's not acceptable. He got one unit of A6A late and started testing it at the very end of September and throughout October. You can also see his youtube shorts from that period of time, testing specific features. Once he completed SINAD, a few other measurements and videos, he posted it to Yamaha and waited for several weeks. They came back to him late, by mid-November. So, it's been roughly three weeks from their reply. He obviously does other things in life and he has not said that the review would not be published. Anything else is a gossip, which I encourage everyone to refrain from, as it is not useful. If nothing is published by the New Year, I'd suggest, them we could ask him more questions and put some light pressure, but this needs to be civilised and polite.

If anyone is impatient, please send your unit to Amir immediatelly. Simple.

 

[squeedle]

Please stop spreading misinformation about timeline. It's not acceptable. He got one unit of A6A late and started testing it at the very end of September and throughout October. You can also see his youtube shorts from that period of time, testing specific features. Once he completed SINAD, a few other measurements and videos, he posted it to Yamaha and waited for several weeks. They came back to him late, by mid-November. So, it's been roughly three weeks from their reply. He obviously does other things in life and he has not said that the review would not be published. Anything else is a gossip, which I encourage everyone to refrain from, as it is not useful. If nothing is published by the New Year, I'd suggest, them we could ask him more questions and put some light pressure, but this needs to be civilised and polite.

If anyone is impatient, please send your unit to Amir immediatelly. Simple.

I agree we shouldn't spread misinformation. But please don't tell people when they are and aren't allowed to be impatient, that's ridiculous.

 

[Technomania]

But please don't tell people when they are and aren't allowed to be impatient, that's ridiculous.

Anyone is allowed to be impatient whenever they feel like. That's not my business. I proposed one action to deal with it. There are hundreds of other things that could be done. When I get impatient about something, I go out to take a walk or eat an apple.

 

[valerianf]

Just to say it, it is strange that the first measurements in a review of a Yamaha A4, A6, A8 will come after Chritmas and the holidays sales period.
They seems already to be in stock since a few weeks.
If I would be on the plot side, I will say that there is something to hide.
For Yamaha and Denon, last year, it was the hdmi 2.1 that was not working!
What is it this year?

 

[EB1000]

Please stop spreading misinformation about timeline. It's not acceptable. He got one unit of A6A late and started testing it at the very end of September and throughout October. You can also see his youtube shorts from that period of time, testing specific features. Once he completed SINAD, a few other measurements and videos, he posted it to Yamaha and waited for several weeks. They came back to him late, by mid-November. So, it's been roughly three weeks from their reply. He obviously does other things in life and he has not said that the review would not be published. Anything else is a gossip, which I encourage everyone to refrain from, as it is not useful. If nothing is published by the New Year, I'd suggest, them we could ask him more questions and put some light pressure, but this needs to be civilised and polite.

If anyone is impatient, please send your unit to Amir immediatelly. Simple.

He made the first video about getting the unit from Yamaha back in September:

It's now December, so it's roughly three months since he started the project and over a month since he decided to wait for Yamaha to come up with a FW fix for the SINAD variability among channels, but they did not (two FW updates released since then which did not fix any of the major bugs). I know for a fact that the SINAD issue is unfixable by FW. It's unclear if they can even fix the full scale SPL distortion, Gene also mentioned. The new line of receivers uses newer components, which were never used before, so bugs are unavertable. Unless you want to become a Yamaha beta tester, I would wait for at least another year for new hardware revisions to become available with fully matured FW (I assume it will take some time due to current worldwide components shortages).

Do you really want a 3000$ receiver that behaves like this:

?