Looking for AVR for Focal Aria 936 and Tidal Streaming - Budget ~4000€

[malacant]

Hi everyone,
Now I have a Yamaha RX-a3060 and I’m looking for a new AVR that can meet the following criteria:

1. Driving Focal Aria 936: These speakers are known to dip down to 2.8 ohms, so I need an amplifier with excellent current management and stability at low impedances.
2. Integrated Tidal support: I’d like to stream Tidal directly via smartphone without requiring external devices like DACs or streamers.
3. Budget: Up to 3000-4000€.
4. Primary use: A mix of music (stereo) and home theater (multichannel). While versatility is important, I’d like the AVR to excel in audio quality, especially for music playback.
5. Bonus features: Support for room correction technologies would be a great addition but isn’t strictly mandatory.

I’m currently considering the Marantz Cinema 30 and Yamaha RX-A8A, but I’m not entirely sure if these are the best options for my setup.

If you have direct experience with these models or other recommendations that fit my requirements, I’d greatly appreciate your insights!

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[anotherhobby]

I have a Denon X4300H (from 2016) and it has never had any issues with my 936's. I'd expect the same to be true for any of the Denons. Even my old 2016 model fits all of your criteria. The newer X4800H fits well within your budget.

 

[Moonbase]

The question I would ask is how important is your music performance to you? Denon and Yamaha are great AVR, but no the best streamers. NAD would be worth considering. I went Arcam for this very reason and all works nicely. Dirac with any of the AVR will give notable improvements to the BASS

 

[Dovydas]

It's 1:1 my case. I own the same Arias and use Tidal for music listening. Since Denon introduced Tidal Connect, I have no complains and can recommend Denon receivers for it. x3800h or x4800h would be perfect for you.

 

[malacant]

I'll try to provide some more details. Currently, I enjoy using Yamaha's MusicCast app, which fits my needs perfectly and has been problem-free.

The sound quality is CD-like, and I often use it in "Pure Direct" mode for music listening rather than movie viewing. It’s convenient to use with both smartphone and tablet without having to approach the AVR (including power-on).

I’ve listened to the Marantz Cinema 30 paired with a B&W setup at an event and liked it, though B&W has a different character from my beloved Focal. My goal is to achieve a fuller mid-range sound without sacrificing the beautiful high frequencies.

The initial push towards this upgrade came from reviews of the Focal 936, highlighting its 2.8-ohm impedance and the need for substantial current to maximize performance.

Denon’s sound has never convinced me (just my personal opinion). I’ve always found it a bit lacking in "soul."

 

[peng]

Hi everyone,
Now I have a Yamaha RX-a3060 and I’m looking for a new AVR that can meet the following criteria:

1. Driving Focal Aria 936: These speakers are known to dip down to 2.8 ohms, so I need an amplifier with excellent current management and stability at low impedances.

You may be right that you need an amplifier to drive those speakers but you also may not, as it depends on your applications, and that 2.8 ohms dip is not the only thing to consider. Take a look of the following several factors that influence current requirements:

- the current required for 4 ohm is 2X that for 8 ohms, or 2.86X for 2.8 ohms.
- the doubling of distance results in 6 dB drop in spl, that will result in 2X current increase, all else being equal.
- as an numerical example, listening to spl of 93 dB peak spl (very loud) vs 105 dB (that is THX reference level, really too loud for most people) will result in 4X higher current.

The concerns about the Aria 936 impedance/phase angle combination is in the range 70-800 Hz, but only if you sit far enough and/or listen to high enough SPL. So, if you sit far enough, such as 4 meters and listen loud enough, such as 10 dB below reference, even the Cinema 30 and RX-A8A will still struggle, you are better off saving money on the AVR and spend it on a power amp for the Aria 936 as the amp will be, or may be clipping during peaks depending on the music contents you play. Subwoofers won't help in this case.

I would recommend the Cinema 30+a low cost Hypex based 300/500 W (or a little higher) 8/4 ohms rated power amp such as Apollon or Audiophonic's if you are in Europe, or AVR-X6800H+a buckeye amp, also rated 300/500 W 8/4 ohms if you are in Asia or North America. That's based on specs, measurements, prices, not subjective based sound quality difference claims (because those are not reliable/believable most of the time but you most likely know that already). I pick 500 W 4 ohms, though you can't have too much power. Keep in mind Focal recommended 50-300 W for the 936, so much more than 300/500 W 8/4 ohms is not likely going to benefit more.

1. Integrated Tidal support: I’d like to stream Tidal directly via smartphone without requiring external devices like DACs or streamers.
2. Budget: Up to 3000-4000€.
3. Primary use: A mix of music (stereo) and home theater (multichannel). While versatility is important, I’d like the AVR to excel in audio quality, especially for music playback.
4. Bonus features: Support for room correction technologies would be a great addition but isn’t strictly mandatory.

I’m currently considering the Marantz Cinema 30 and Yamaha RX-A8A, but I’m not entirely sure if these are the best options for my setup.

If you have direct experience with these models or other recommendations that fit my requirements, I’d greatly appreciate your insights!

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[malacant]

Thank you so much for your incredibly valuable suggestions. I’ll add a new detail that might help the reasoning. The listening is done in an apartment inside a building, so the volume is never, let’s say, exaggerated. I think I’m at most around 80-85 dB on average. From what I understand from your words, given my listening volume, the current power of my Yamaha RXA3060 (previous flagship of Yamaha...) is not the 'problem,' but rather the sound signature of Yamaha that might make me perceive 'gaps' in some frequencies because it emphasizes others. Using, for example, the Marantz Cinema 30 with a sound signature more centered on the mid-bass would bridge this gap. Did I understand correctly?

 

[peng]

Thank you so much for your incredibly valuable suggestions. I’ll add a new detail that might help the reasoning. The listening is done in an apartment inside a building, so the volume is never, let’s say, exaggerated. I think I’m at most around 80-85 dB on average. From what I understand from your words, given my listening volume, the current power of my Yamaha RXA3060 (previous flagship of Yamaha...) is not the 'problem,' but rather the sound signature of Yamaha that might make me perceive 'gaps' in some frequencies because it emphasizes others. Using, for example, the Marantz Cinema 30 with a sound signature more centered on the mid-bass would bridge this gap. Did I understand correctly?

The additional info helps for sure. If you listen to 85 dB avg, the peak will be 105 dB for some movies, higher for some music that has extremely high DR.

So I do think the Yamaha would have been clipping at times, assuming you sit from 4 meters or more. I would still recommend a power amp, and I trust the Cinema 60 's preout more, vs the A8A.

Have you used an online calculator to find out how much power you need?

 

[malacant]

The reference in dB was for listening to music in 'Pure Direct' (without DSP or room correction). For movie listening, it is lower because I need to avoid dB peaks, otherwise my neighbors would attack me like in 'The Walking Dead' Anyway, I confirm that I am about 4 meters away from the speakers. In any case, do you suggest adding a power amplifier with specifications over 150 watts? I could get a Marantz MM8077 to pair with the Yamaha RX-A3060. They 'declare' the same power, but the Marantz power amp probably has more accurate data considering its sole role of amplification.

Have you use an online calculator to find out how much power you need?

No, any suggestion?

 

[Jim Taylor]

Before you go to higher power amps, please read this:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...te-new-schiit-speaker-amps.42329/post-2163119

 

[peng]

The reference in dB was for listening to music in 'Pure Direct' (without DSP or room correction). For movie listening, it is lower because I need to avoid dB peaks, otherwise my neighbors would attack me like in 'The Walking Dead' Anyway, I confirm that I am about 4 meters away from the speakers. In any case, do you suggest adding a power amplifier with specifications over 150 watts? I could get a Marantz MM8077 to pair with the Yamaha RX-A3060. They 'declare' the same power, but the Marantz power amp probably has more accurate data considering its sole role of amplification.


No, any suggestion?

Do your other speakers need a lot of power too?

I thought you were only concerned about the Aria 936. So, I believe you can benefit from a power amp, but not the likes of the MM8077. I have a MM8003, the older 8 channel version of the 8077, but I use it for the surround and height channels only.

THe 936 will sound loud even with the 3060 or 8077, but if want to avoid clipping under all conditions, you need a power amp, or stick with 70-75 dB average spl, not 80-85. The only thing the 8077 can do is to take some load off the avr. Imo it is not worth doing it.

By the way, no clipping under all condition may or may not result in audibly better SQ as it depends on other factors.

Amplifier Output Calculator

Calculate an Audio Amplifier's output voltage and output current

benchmarkmedia.com

 

[malacant]

Thank you again for all these reflections. Ultimately, I'm starting to be convinced that, as I said before, I don't need more power but perhaps an amplifier with a different tonal character to match the Focal sign.

In any case, what wattage should I look for in a Class A/B power amplifier instead of Class D. I need to create a "one-click on app" environment

 

[Svend P]

Thank you so much for your incredibly valuable suggestions. I’ll add a new detail that might help the reasoning. The listening is done in an apartment inside a building, so the volume is never, let’s say, exaggerated. I think I’m at most around 80-85 dB on average. From what I understand from your words, given my listening volume, the current power of my Yamaha RXA3060 (previous flagship of Yamaha...) is not the 'problem,' but rather the sound signature of Yamaha that might make me perceive 'gaps' in some frequencies because it emphasizes others. Using, for example, the Marantz Cinema 30 with a sound signature more centered on the mid-bass would bridge this gap. Did I understand correctly?

No. All amplifiers sound the same. There is no such thing as sound signature.

 

[peng]

Thank you again for all these reflections. Ultimately, I'm starting to be convinced that, as I said before, I don't need more power but perhaps an amplifier with a different tonal character to match the Focal sign.

In any case, what wattage should I look for in a Class A/B power amplifier instead of Class D. I need to create a "one-click on app" environment

If you believe amps of such high qualities have their own sound signatures or tonal characters then I have no comments because to me, that sort of things defy logic. Engineers/designers rely on specs and measurements to guide them, not by that own perception by ears that would be subjective. At the end of the day, as you alluded to, in your OP, it is about ensuring the amp can deliver the current you need, at distortions and noise below the threshold of audibility. 8077, 3060, comparable class SB amps, class D amps such as buckeyeamps, Apollon, Audiophonic amps will sound the same if not pushed to anywhere need their voltage and current limits. I know, many people don't believe that and for them, nothing will change their mind unless they are willing to do proper comparison listening, and that's outside the scope of your OP.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Ultimately, I'm starting to be convinced that, as I said before, I don't need more power but perhaps an amplifier with a different tonal character to match the Focal sign.

See below ...

No. All amplifiers sound the same. There is no such thing as sound signature.

All competently deigned amps, operated within their power capabilities, sound the same. This means that the imperfections of the amp, while measurable, are below the threshold of human hearing.

You can't hear what you can't hear.

There have been numerous people signing onto these forums who have claimed to hear differences in amps ... not junk amps, but normal, every-day well-designed amps such as those you have mentioned. AFAIK, not one of them has passed a double-blind test.

 

[Miker 1102]

See below ...



All competently deigned amps, operated within their power capabilities, sound the same. This means that the imperfections of the amp, while measurable, are below the threshold of human hearing.

You can't hear what you can't hear.

There have been numerous people signing onto these forums who have claimed to hear differences in amps ... not junk amps, but normal, every-day well-designed amps such as those you have mentioned. AFAIK, not one of them has passed a double-blind test.

I agree and wish there were more testing done that's published.

 

[Ncesar]

Hi everyone,
Now I have a Yamaha RX-a3060 and I’m looking for a new AVR that can meet the following criteria:

1. Driving Focal Aria 936: These speakers are known to dip down to 2.8 ohms, so I need an amplifier with excellent current management and stability at low impedances.
2. Integrated Tidal support: I’d like to stream Tidal directly via smartphone without requiring external devices like DACs or streamers.
3. Budget: Up to 3000-4000€.
4. Primary use: A mix of music (stereo) and home theater (multichannel). While versatility is important, I’d like the AVR to excel in audio quality, especially for music playback.
5. Bonus features: Support for room correction technologies would be a great addition but isn’t strictly mandatory.

I’m currently considering the Marantz Cinema 30 and Yamaha RX-A8A, but I’m not entirely sure if these are the best options for my setup.

If you have direct experience with these models or other recommendations that fit my requirements, I’d greatly appreciate your insights!

Thanks in advance for your help

Could the Denon avc- x6800h be an option? Some retailers in Germany are selling for less than €2500.
Just look in Idealo.de.

 

[Head_Unit]

The initial push towards this upgrade came from reviews of the Focal 936, highlighting its 2.8-ohm impedance and the need for substantial current to maximize performance.

Let me say as a loudspeaker engineer THIS DOES NOT MATTER UNLESS YOU PLAY REALLY LOUD. Only at the volume extremes will that become a factor. For some time we ran a Denon AVR-X3600H, playing to loud but not earsplitting volume at most. No problem with the 936, though we did add an AC Infinity fan which kept it cooler.
- Marantz MM8077 has the same rating as your AVR, so that is a waste. Even with *maybe* a beefier power supply it's not going to put out transformationally more power into the speakers. You need at least double the 4Ω rating, which AVRs don't have, but let's say like 400+ watts into 4Ω which is a heavy lift. LCR seem to peak higher than all the other channels so you just need three channels, like
https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/amplifiers/purifi/1et6525sa/3_channel
https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/amplifiers/hypex/ncx500/3_channel
which is even rated down to 2 ohms. You could also consider an ATI, more expensive but very cool running. With today's advanced Class D I have zero interest in less efficient A/B amps any more.
- For room correction, have you tried your YPAO? It seems less sophisticated than Audyssey et al but depending on your room I've read good results.
- Have you tried your subwoofer in different locations? To be sure it's not in a bad spot, which no room correction can really fix? Even an SPL app for a phone might be OK for this.
- For Tidal, don't change the whole AVR. Surely there is some small streamer with optic output or something?

 

[Head_Unit]

perhaps an amplifier with a different tonal character to match the Focal sign.

Back to this, I don't believe in that idea at all. However we did use the Audyssey App to post-calibration turn off their silly midrange dip, and dial in a very small gentle wide boost up around 2-3 kHz. Very subtle but in that room it made the sound to our taste.

 

[Moonbase]

I guess it depends on your ambitions. Do you want a system that adds and takes away as near as possible nothing or something that sounds nice. If it’s the latter then maybe you should be looking at a record player and valve amplifier.