xDuoo TA-20 Tube Balanced Headphone Amplifier Review

[SIY]

I am using the sundara with both 90 topping and loxjie p20 and I don't like it at all, fatiguing sound and forward mid-highs, would this TA20 go well with sundara? has anyone tried?

I'd try some EQ first before chasing electronic rabbits.

 

[Veri]

I am using the sundara with both 90 topping and loxjie p20 and I don't like it at all, fatiguing sound and forward mid-highs, would this TA20 go well with sundara? has anyone tried?

Despite what some people online tend to claim, an amp will not make a super drastic difference like that. Unless it is rolling off high frequencies by 10dB or such anomaly there's no way it will go fatiguing to unfatigueing. I second looking into oratory1990 EQ, AutoEQ, sonarworks trial, ... and see how that helps. Much better results I'm sure..

 

[hmscott]

I am using the sundara with both 90 topping and loxjie p20 and I don't like it at all, fatiguing sound and forward mid-highs, would this TA20 go well with sundara? has anyone tried?

I haven't tried the Loxjie P20 nor the Sundara, but I have the Ananda/HE6SE V2 + TA-20 and both of those Hifiman Planars sound great to me, and I prefer listening to them on the TA-20 over the A90, but it's all personal taste.

My FiiO M15 driving the Ananda on balanced 4.4mm sounds much more enjoyable to me than the A90 as well. The HE6SE V2 requires a lot of power, and the M15 does drive it nicely - but the M15 gets pretty hot.

I also prefer listening to my IEMs on my M15 over the A90, which is why I started looking for less "cool" sounding headphone AMPs, which led me to the TA-20, a Hybrid Tube/SS AMP. I'm very happy I took the time to do so, it really has worked out great for my listening enjoyment.

I recommend testing the TA-20 out of the box with the included Shuguang 12AU7's for function, but for listening pleasure I recommend NOS 12AT7/ECC81/E81CC/6060 tubes.

The TA-20 and each set of new Tubes need to run for a while before you'll get the best sound out of them. I gave the TA-20 about a week of use on the stock tubes to make sure it is stable before moving to new tubes.

There are reissue tubes that are 100% new, those are least expensive and I found the Telefunken 12AU7, Golden Lion 12AU7 I started with sounded great.

For NOS tubes I make sure I work with a vendor that gives me the actual Measurements on a Tube Tester because I want the "Life" measurement to be whatever 100%+ works out. If I get tubes measuring less than 95% - which I did early on to save money - I find that they HISS in my IEM's, but there is no HISS in my headphones. 100%+ measuring tubes give plenty of life with no IEM HISS - but those tubes are more expensive and take some time and patience to find.

The 12AX7's I've tried are too "hot", you might enjoy them - some do run them in the TA-20.

E80CC tubes require 2x the 12XX7 heater current, and the TA-20 will run them after the tubes are warmed up, and sound is as luscious as other owners have reported. Cold ambient temperatures can cause the E80CC tubes to light up the "red error indictor", but a couple of power cycles or running the A90 that is sitting under my TA-20 to "warm up" the TA-20 before switching it on, keeps that "red error indicator" from coming on when switching on the TA-20.

Overall the 12AT7 and 6060 tubes - also a 12AT7 variant - sound best to me on the TA-20 without needing to run the TA-20 hot as with the E80CC tubes.

The TA-20 and TA-30 are both hybrid Tube/SS headphone amps that run the same preamp tubes. The TA-30 has 3W output vs the TA-20 2W output.
The TA-30 has a built-in DAC and costs $709.00 and the TA-20 costs $399:
xDuoo TA-20 Balanced Tube Amp-xDuoo Official Store
xDuoo TA-30 Tube Headphone Amplifier - xDuoo official store

If you get a TA-20/TA-30, please let us know how it goes

 

[SIY]

I haven't tried the Loxjie P20 nor the Sundara, but I have the Ananda/HE6SE V2 + TA-20 and both of those Hifiman Planars sound great to me, and I prefer listening to them on the TA-20 over the A90, but it's all personal taste.

My FiiO M15 driving the Ananda on balanced 4.4mm sounds much more enjoyable to me than the A90 as well. The HE6SE V2 requires a lot of power, and the M15 does drive it nicely - but the M15 gets pretty hot.

I also prefer listening to my IEMs on my M15 over the A90, which is why I started looking for less "cool" sounding headphone AMPs, which led me to the TA-20, a Hybrid Tube/SS AMP. I'm very happy I took the time to do so, it really has worked out great for my listening enjoyment.

I recommend testing the TA-20 out of the box with the included Shuguang 12AU7's for function, but for listening pleasure I recommend NOS 12AT7/ECC81/E81CC/6060 tubes.

The TA-20 and each set of new Tubes need to run for a while before you'll get the best sound out of them. Give the TA-20 about a week of use on the stock tubes to make sure it is stable before moving to new tubes.

There are reissue tubes that are 100% new, those are least expensive and I found the Telefunken 12AU7, Golden Lion 12AU7 I started with sounded great.

For NOS tubes make sure you work with a vendor that gives you the Measurements on a Tube Tester, and you want the "Life" measurement to be whatever 100%+ works out. If I get less than 95% measuring tubes - which I did early on to save money - I found that they HISS in my IEM's, but there is no HISS in my headphones. 100%+ measuring tubes give you plenty of life and no IEM HISS - but those tubes are more expensive and take some time and patience to find.

The 12AX7's I've tried are too "hot", you might enjoy them - some do run them in the TA-20.

E80CC tubes require 2x the 12XX7 heater current, and the TA-20 will run them after the tubes are warmed up, and sound is as luscious as other owners have reported. Cold ambient temperatures can cause the E80CC tubes to light up the "red error indictor", but a couple of power cycles or running the A90 under the TA-20 to "warm it up" solves that.

Over all the 12AT7 and 6060 tubes - also a 12AT7 variant - sound best to me on the TA-20.

The TA-20 and TA-30 both hybrid Tube/SS headphone amps that run the same preamp tubes. The TA-30 has 3W output vs the TA-20 2W output.
The TA-30 has a built-in DAC and costs $709.00 and the TA-20 costs $399:
xDuoo TA-20 Balanced Tube Amp-xDuoo Official Store
xDuoo TA-30 Tube Headphone Amplifier - xDuoo official store

If you get a TA-20/TA-30, please let us know how it goes

Good way to waste time and money.

 

[Cirodx]

I haven't tried the Loxjie P20 nor the Sundara, but I have the Ananda/HE6SE V2 + TA-20 and both of those Hifiman Planars sound great to me, and I prefer listening to them on the TA-20 over the A90, but it's all personal taste.

My FiiO M15 driving the Ananda on balanced 4.4mm sounds much more enjoyable to me than the A90 as well. The HE6SE V2 requires a lot of power, and the M15 does drive it nicely - but the M15 gets pretty hot.

I also prefer listening to my IEMs on my M15 over the A90, which is why I started looking for less "cool" sounding headphone AMPs, which led me to the TA-20, a Hybrid Tube/SS AMP. I'm very happy I took the time to do so, it really has worked out great for my listening enjoyment.

I recommend testing the TA-20 out of the box with the included Shuguang 12AU7's for function, but for listening pleasure I recommend NOS 12AT7/ECC81/E81CC/6060 tubes.

The TA-20 and each set of new Tubes need to run for a while before you'll get the best sound out of them. Give the TA-20 about a week of use on the stock tubes to make sure it is stable before moving to new tubes.

There are reissue tubes that are 100% new, those are least expensive and I found the Telefunken 12AU7, Golden Lion 12AU7 I started with sounded great.

For NOS tubes make sure you work with a vendor that gives you the Measurements on a Tube Tester, and you want the "Life" measurement to be whatever 100%+ works out. If I get less than 95% measuring tubes - which I did early on to save money - I found that they HISS in my IEM's, but there is no HISS in my headphones. 100%+ measuring tubes give you plenty of life and no IEM HISS - but those tubes are more expensive and take some time and patience to find.

The 12AX7's I've tried are too "hot", you might enjoy them - some do run them in the TA-20.

E80CC tubes require 2x the 12XX7 heater current, and the TA-20 will run them after the tubes are warmed up, and sound is as luscious as other owners have reported. Cold ambient temperatures can cause the E80CC tubes to light up the "red error indictor", but a couple of power cycles or running the A90 under the TA-20 to "warm it up" solves that.

Over all the 12AT7 and 6060 tubes - also a 12AT7 variant - sound best to me on the TA-20.

The TA-20 and TA-30 both hybrid Tube/SS headphone amps that run the same preamp tubes. The TA-30 has 3W output vs the TA-20 2W output.
The TA-30 has a built-in DAC and costs $709.00 and the TA-20 costs $399:
xDuoo TA-20 Balanced Tube Amp-xDuoo Official Store
xDuoo TA-30 Tube Headphone Amplifier - xDuoo official store

If you get a TA-20/TA-30, please let us know how it goes

also prefer the sundara directly from the lower dx220 instead of the A90 E GUSTARD X16 and this is a shame, honestly if I have to spend 350 euros for the tA20 just for the sundara, isn't it worth it?

 

[Cirodx]

has anyone compared the TA 20 to the loxjie p20?

 

[hmscott]

has anyone compared the TA 20 to the loxjie p20?

There is only one comparison I've found, link starts where he gets down to the sound between the two...

The link in his Description to the tube rolling is a nice start: Tube Rolling the 12au7 in Xduoo Amps | Audiofool Reviews

I asked Xduoo if the TA-20 supported 12AT7/12AX7 tubes too and when they came back and said "Yes", I jumped from 12AU7's to experimenting with 12AT7/12AX7 - a couple of each - and after comparing the sound I settled on the 12AT7 and equivalent variants. Later I found out about the E80CC/6085 from various TA-20 and TA-30 owners.

Listening with the Hifiman Ananda's the E80CC's spread out the sound stage in all directions and at the same time tighten up each individual sound source into sharper focus. Moving from the Brimar 6060 Yellow-T's which are the most "tubey" wide sound stage 12AT7 variants I've tried, the E80CC clearly brings the TA-20 further in that direction and at the same time grounds the sound - everything sounds more "real" - instruments resonate realistically - vocals without music gain a breadth of presence of their own. I'm enjoying music and other material at lower volume settings.

Even though the TA-20 runs hotter with the E80CC's, and I'm not sure it's gonna hold up, I'm really enjoying listening to everything all over again, and the TA-20 and I haven't given up yet.

I'd recommend to run the E80CC's on the TA-20 / TA-30 at your own risk. Even though Xduoo confirmed the E80CC tubes are supported:

"E80CC ( 6085 ) is ok to match with TA20 and TA30 xduoo replied, and they thank you for your questions and testing." - relayed from Hifigo.com

The heat is higher than I'd like it to be - perhaps during the Winter it will be better - I often listen with the Windows open at night to cool down the TA-20. Now I know why I've heard some Tube users retire their tube amps during the Summer.

Switching back to the A90 from the TA-20 with E80CC's doesn't last long, so I'm sticking with the TA-20 + E80CC's.

 

[SIY]

There is only one comparison I've found, link starts where he gets down to the sound between the two...

The link in his Description to the tube rolling is a nice start: Tube Rolling the 12au7 in Xduoo Amps | Audiofool Reviews

I asked Xduoo if the TA-20 supported 12AT7/12AX7 tubes too and when they came back and said "Yes", I jumped from 12AU7's to experimenting with 12AT7/12AX7 - a couple of each - and after comparing the sound I settled on the 12AT7 and equivalent variants. Later I found out about the E80CC/6085 from various TA-20 and TA-30 owners.

The E80CC's spread out the sound stage in all directions and at the same time tighten up each individual sound source into sharper focus. Moving from the Brimar 6060 Yellow-T's which are the most "tubey" wide sound stage 12AT7 variants I've tried, the E80CC clearly brings the TA-20 further in that direction and at the same time grounds the sound - everything sounds more "real" - instruments resonate realistically - vocals without music gain a breadth of presence of their own. I'm enjoying music and other material at lower volume settings.

Even though the TA-20 runs hotter with the E80CC's, and I'm not sure it's gonna hold up, I'm really enjoying listening to everything all over again, and the TA-20 and I haven't given up yet.

I'd recommend to run the E80CC's on the TA-20 / TA-30 at your own risk. Even though Xduoo confirmed the E80CC tubes are supported:

"E80CC ( 6085 ) is ok to match with TA20 and TA30 xduoo replied, and they thank you for your questions and testing." - relayed from Hifigo.com

The heat is higher than I'd like it to be - perhaps during the Winter it will be better - I often listen with the Windows open at night to cool down the TA-20. Now I know why I've heard some Tube users without Air-Conditioning retire their tube amps during the Summer.

Switching back to the A90 from the TA-20 with E80CC's doesn't last long, so I'm sticking with the TA-20 + E80CC's.

There was no actual listening test in that link. Absolutely worthless. The worst part is that these guys are enstupidating their readers.

 

[hmscott]

It is amazing what you find when you aren't looking for it, and DMS reminded me that sometimes we forget why we are here...

Zeos Pantera from ZReviews - YouTube

...to enjoy music and have fun.

Here are some more RMAF 2019 clips:

Spoiler: RMAF 2019

RMAF 2019 - YouTube

HiFi Guides Room at RMAF 2019 was the Coolest Experience by Far | DMS and Zeos (Z Reviews) - YouTube

(3681) RMAF//2019 Room 9105 - Made Possible by Viewers like you... - YouTube

 

[SIY]

It is amazing what you find when you aren't looking for it, and DMS reminded me that sometimes we forget why we are here...

Zeos Pantera from ZReviews - YouTube

...to enjoy music and have fun.

We are "here" to talk about the technological aspects of audio. Superstition and make-believe are far too prevalent and need to be called out.

 

[hmscott]

We are "here" to talk about the technological aspects of audio. Superstition and make-believe are far too prevalent and need to be called out.

There was no actual listening test in that link. Absolutely worthless. The worst part is that these guys are enstupidating their readers.

There was no "listening test" mentioned. Here is what was asked and answered:

@Cirodx asked: "has anyone compared the TA 20 to the loxjie p20?"

I answered: "There is only one comparison I've found, link starts where he gets down to the sound between the two..."

You made up the whole "listening test" in your head, setting up unreasonable expectations divorced from the reality of what was written.

You are reacting to your own "make-believe" head trip, and now you are picking a fight with your own failed expectations. IDK what superstitions you are referring to either, again it is all made up in your own mind and has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

You appear to me to be combative and delusional. As if driven by caffeine, "Best coffee on the planet".

I've run across others with Caffeine addictions that are similarly disturbed when they load too much caffeine - or are low on caffeine. They need to maintain the right balance in order to interact with others.

In the dorms in my first year in college there was the first person I'd met like you. He would become critical and combative out of the blue while others were having enjoyable conversations and then he catches himself doing that and runs off for a while, and then later when he had calmed down he would come back and he would apologize.

I had a boss that smoked packs of cigarettes' every day, and drank gallons of coffee - you'd never see him without a coffee cup in his hand and half a dozen empties on his desk. I was one of the few that could keep up with him, which is why we got along, but he cut other engineers off at the knee's on a weekly basis.

Eventually he got help, and was able to return to work without coffee or smoking, he wasn't such a bad guy after all is what everyone said.

There is no need for any apologies, I'd accept a simple creative contribution to the discussion. I hope you feel better.

 

[SIY]

There was no "listening test" mentioned. Here is what was asked and answered:

@Cirodx asked: "has anyone compared the TA 20 to the loxjie p20?"

I answered: "There is only one comparison I've found, link starts where he gets down to the sound between the two..."

You made up the whole "listening test" in your head, setting up unreasonable expectations divorced from the reality of what was written.

You are reacting to your own "make-believe" head trip, and now you are picking a fight with your own failed expectations. IDK what superstitions you are referring to either, again it is all made up in your own mind and has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

You appear to me to be combative and delusional. As if driven by caffeine, "Best coffee on the planet".

I've run across others with Caffeine addictions that are similarly disturbed when they load too much caffeine - or are low on caffeine. They need to maintain the right balance in order to interact with others.

In the dorms in my first year in college there was the first person I'd met like you. He would become critical and combative out of the blue while others were having enjoyable conversations and when he catches himself doing that and runs off for a while, and then later when he had calmed down he would come back and he would apologize.

No need for an apologies, I'd accept a simple creative contribution to the discussion. I hope you feel better.

“

‘I answered: "There is only one comparison I've found, link starts where he gets down to the sound between the two..."’

Res ipsa loquitur. Please stop linking errant nonsense.

 

[hmscott]

“I answered: "There is only one comparison I've found, link starts where he gets down to the sound between the two..."’
Res ipsa loquitur. Please stop linking errant nonsense.

Again, your imaginary expectations came up with a "listening test" out of what I wrote. I never said it, you made it up in your head.

"where he gets down to the sound between the two", as in comparison between the two. And, that is exactly what he described, starting at the point in the comparison I linked.

And, "There is only one comparison I've found" means just that. If you have a better comparison, or make one of your own, please do share it with us all here, we'd love to see your positive contribution(s).

 

[Cirodx]

I asked for the comparison between p20 and TA 20 because I already have the p20 and if it sounds similar to the TA 20 it is useless to buy it.

 

[SIY]

Again, your imaginary expectations came up with a "listening test" out of what I wrote. I never said it, you made it up in your head.

"where he gets down to the sound between the two", as in comparison between the two. And, that is exactly what he described, starting at the point in the comparison I linked.

Uh huh.

 

[hmscott]

I asked for the comparison between p20 and TA 20 because I already have the p20 and if it sounds similar to the TA 20 it is useless to buy it.

Exactly, all you needed to know was that the TA-20 wasn't a P20, for $300 more.

Please come back and let us know what you end up getting, and how it works out for you.

 

[DeepSpace57]

has anyone compared the TA 20 to the loxjie p20?

I have both for a long time!
Winners here!!
Sound stage wise: Ta-20 byfar
Blacker background: Ta-20
Separation: Ta-20
Bass: P20 by far
Treble: P20
Midrange: Tier
Layering: Ta-20
Dynamism/engagement : P20
Imaging: Ta-20
Driving power: Tier ( both are powerful enough for almost all, but ta -20 at 55/99 (0 = silent) equals like 25/60 of P20( 60 = silent)
Quality (material) : tier

Generally Prefer ta-20 unless I listen to heavy metal

 

[SIY]

I have both for a long time!
Winners here!!
Sound stage wise: Ta-20 byfar
Blacker background: Ta-20
Separation: Ta-20
Bass: P20 by far
Treble: P20
Midrange: Tier
Layering: Ta-20
Dynamism/engagement : P20
Imaging: Ta-20
Driving power: Tier ( both are powerful enough for almost all, but ta -20 at 55/99 (0 = silent) equals like 25/60 of P20( 60 = silent)
Quality (material) : tier

Generally Prefer ta-20 unless I listen to heavy metal

Can you please describe the experimental setup (especially the controls) used to determine these remarkable things?

 

[hmscott]

I have both for a long time!
Winners here!!
Sound stage wise: Ta-20 by far
Blacker background: Ta-20
Separation: Ta-20
Bass: P20 by far
Treble: P20
Midrange: Tier
Layering: Ta-20
Dynamism/engagement : P20
Imaging: Ta-20
Driving power: Tier ( both are powerful enough for almost all, but ta -20 at 55/99 (0 = silent) equals like 25/60 of P20( 60 = silent)
Quality (material) : tier

Generally Prefer ta-20 unless I listen to heavy metal

Thank you for the detailed comparison @DeepSpace57 - That was very helpful.

Do you use any equalization software/hardware with the TA-20 to bring the BASS / Treble up to P20 levels, or do you run without correction?

I concur that TA-20 excels in all of the areas you mentioned that the TA-20 excels in for you, and I try to enhance them by finding more "tubey" tubes to swap in to the TA-20.

What tubes have you found most enjoyable in the TA-20? Do any of those tubes help in the areas you mentioned above to improve the TA-20 sound?

As described above I have recently found that the E80CC greatly enhances the "Dynamism/engagement" of the TA-20, but E80CC tubes make the TA-20 run hot, and one of the things I like about the TA-20 with 12AT7 variant tubes is that the TA-20 only ran about as hot as the Topping A90.

 

[SIY]

Thank you for the detailed comparison @DeepSpace57 - That was very helpful.

But is any of it true or is it imaginary? Until the experimental setup and controls are detailed, this is a highly dubious comparison. This is a science forum, so the story telling so endemic in the audio world just doesn't cut it without evidence.