Worth upgrading from Fiio K5 Pro (RCA) to a balanced DAC for more than 1 reason.

[Rockfella]

Current combo : Kali Audio LP6 + FiiO K5 Pro connected with RCA. I am happy with the combo, was wondering if upgrading to a balanced DAC/xlr will be worth it?
Reasons: Want to try XLR cables (hoping for better audio) + K5 Pro has a weird problem: It does not mute the monitors if I connect headphone, have to power off the monitors while using headphones.
Any make and model would be helpful. Not looking for something expensive but good value.
Regards,
Vivek.

 

[Peterinvan]

I cannot speak to using a DAC with RCA to powered speakers, however...

In my experience, balanced headphone amplifiers serve two primary purposes.
(a) to reduce crosstalk. I cannot recall ever noticing crosstalk interference on any of my headphone amps.
(b) to provide more power to your headphones. This especially true for small dongle DACs.

I have two dongle DACs with 4.4mm balanced output (Cayin RU6 and FiiO KA3). All my earphones and headphone cables are now terminated with 4.4mm plugs.
These DACs will run down my iPhone and iPad Pro batteries about 30% faster
It's worth it for quality playback during a pleasant outdoor walk by the shore.

Sound quality:
Cayin RU6 = 5*
FiiO KA3 = 3.5*

YMMV.

 

[Berwhale]

My own reason to move to a balanced connection between my DAC and monitors was ground loop noise. I upgraded my monitors from a pair without a safety ground (i.e. 2 pin power) to a pair with a ground connection (i.e. 3 pin power) and immediately experienced a ground loop issue with my Topping x50 stack (A50s/D50s/P50) and new monitors.

I solved the issues in several ways (USB isolation, optical connection), but ended up replacing the x50 stack with a Topping EX5 DAC/HP Amp. Note that the A50s HP amp was balanced and measures better than the one in the EX5, however, in practice there is no audible difference between the two and the EX5 has sufficient single ended power to drive all my headphones (Sennheiser HD660s, AKG K371, Hifiman/Drop HE-4XX).

I don't miss the A50s on my desktop where I do most of my listening and I prefer the single box solution of the EX5 (but I do retain the x50 stack elsewhere for occasional use).

 

[Rockfella]

My own reason to move to a balanced connection between my DAC and monitors was ground loop noise. I upgraded my monitors from a pair without a safety ground (i.e. 2 pin power) to a pair with a ground connection (i.e. 3 pin power) and immediately experienced a ground loop issue with my Topping x50 stack (A50s/D50s/P50) and new monitors.

I solved the issues in several ways (USB isolation, optical connection), but ended up replacing the x50 stack with a Topping EX5 DAC/HP Amp. Note that the A50s HP amp was balanced and measures better than the one in the EX5, however, in practice there is no audible difference between the two and the EX5 has sufficient single ended power to drive all my headphones (Sennheiser HD660s, AKG K371, Hifiman/Drop HE-4XX).

I don't miss the A50s on my desktop where I do most of my listening and I prefer the single box solution of the EX5 (but I do retain the x50 stack elsewhere for occasional use).

Thank you for the detailed post. I have a very different situation. Not sure if anyone here has experienced it.
If I connect fiiO K5 Pro (DAC/AMP) with USB I hear a lot of noise while gaming (noise is unbearable and only happens when the GPU is on load). One online user faced the same issue and the only thing that worked for him is using optical cable. I have ASUS XOnar DX sound card that I have to use for optical connection and everything works fine.

My current connections : ASUS Xonar DX >Toslink to FiiO K5 Pro > RCA to monitors. Although this works fine but it limits me to 96000 hz.
K5 Pro is 384000 hz and forces me to use the sound card just to optical connection when I can use it in a different PC.
You think a balanced DAC + XLR will totally fix this issue?
Regards.

 

[antcollinet]

Thank you for the detailed post. I have a very different situation. Not sure if anyone here has experienced it.
If I connect fiiO K5 Pro (DAC/AMP) with USB I hear a lot of noise while gaming (noise is unbearable and only happens when the GPU is on load). One online user faced the same issue and the only thing that worked for him is using optical cable. I have ASUS XOnar DX sound card that I have to use for optical connection and everything works fine.

My current connections : ASUS Xonar DX >Toslink to FiiO K5 Pro > RCA to monitors. Although this works fine but it limits me to 96000 hz.
K5 Pro is 384000 hz and forces me to use the sound card just to optical connection when I can use it in a different PC.
You think a balanced DAC + XLR will totally fix this issue?
Regards.

If you still have the Kali monitors with balanced input then a fully balanced connection will typically give you of the order of 40dB attenuation of ground noise, IF ground loop is the only method of coupling. So moving to balanced should reduce the noise down to around e1% of what it is with RCA connections. It should be inaudible.

But your current soluion with Toslink should be eliminating it completely. Why do you want to change from this? You can get very inexpensive USB to Toslink converters for around £$20.

 

[JeremyFife]

Current combo : Kali Audio LP6 + FiiO K5 Pro connected with RCA. I am happy with the combo, was wondering if upgrading to a balanced DAC/xlr will be worth it?
Reasons: Want to try XLR cables (hoping for better audio) + K5 Pro has a weird problem: It does not mute the monitors if I connect headphone, have to power off the monitors while using headphones.
Any make and model would be helpful. Not looking for something expensive but good value.
Regards,
Vivek.

Hi, changing to Balanced will not give you better audio... if you had a problem with noise / interference then it might help (but you don't) and balanced outputs are generally higher voltage so you might get more volume (again, you don't say that's a problem)

A different model should fix that 'mute' issue though. Unfortunately, I can't help with whether or not they actually do so you may have to do some digging and research.
The Topping DX3 Pro+ sounds like a good option, but it's a fair bit to spend to fix that issue if you are already happy with just turning off the monitors. I'd be tempted to stick with what you have since you are happy.

Topping DX3 Pro+ Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping DX3 Pro+ DAC and headphone amplifier. It is a replacement for one of my most favorite combo products, the DX3 Pro. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. The DX3 Pro+ maintains the gorgeous and high contrast orange LEDs...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Rockfella]

If you still have the Kali monitors with balanced input then a fully balanced connection will typically give you of the order of 40dB attenuation of ground noise, IF ground loop is the only method of coupling. So moving to balanced should reduce the noise down to around e1% of what it is with RCA connections. It should be inaudible.

But your current soluion with Toslink should be eliminating it completely. Why do you want to change from this? You can get very inexpensive USB to Toslink converters for around £$20.

For toslink I am using the sound card. Music sound slightly louder/fuller (Flac files) + I don't like the fact that I have to always use a dedicated sound card just for toslink while the dac supports

 

[Berwhale]

Thank you for the detailed post. I have a very different situation. Not sure if anyone here has experienced it.
If I connect fiiO K5 Pro (DAC/AMP) with USB I hear a lot of noise while gaming (noise is unbearable and only happens when the GPU is on load). One online user faced the same issue and the only thing that worked for him is using optical cable. I have ASUS XOnar DX sound card that I have to use for optical connection and everything works fine.

My current connections : ASUS Xonar DX >Toslink to FiiO K5 Pro > RCA to monitors. Although this works fine but it limits me to 96000 hz.
K5 Pro is 384000 hz and forces me to use the sound card just to optical connection when I can use it in a different PC.
You think a balanced DAC + XLR will totally fix this issue?
Regards.

I would get yourself a Topping HS02 to isolate the K5 Pro from the PC...

Topping HS02 USB isolator early impressions

I couldn't find a lot of information about the Topping HS02 USB isolator online from people actually using one so I thought I'd post some of my early impressions of using it. I had a pretty bad noise coming out of the USB connections from my PC motherboard. It didn't matter if I had the output...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Archimago's test results... https://archimago.blogspot.com/2023/04/measurements-topping-hs02-usb-20.html

 

[antcollinet]

I would get yourself a Topping HS02 to isolate the K5 Pro from the PC...

Topping HS02 USB isolator early impressions

I couldn't find a lot of information about the Topping HS02 USB isolator online from people actually using one so I thought I'd post some of my early impressions of using it. I had a pretty bad noise coming out of the USB connections from my PC motherboard. It didn't matter if I had the output...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Archimago's test results... https://archimago.blogspot.com/2023/04/measurements-topping-hs02-usb-20.html

But that is just another box between PC and DAC.

A USB to Toslink is much cheaper and audibly indistinguishable.

 

[Berwhale]

But that is just another box between PC and DAC.

A USB to Toslink is much cheaper and audibly indistinguishable.

How is 'USB to Toslink' not another box between the PC and DAC?

I appreciate that Toslink can carry a signal that is way past transparent, but there is a certain 'niggle factor' to owning a USB DAC which cannot be fed via USB and play the full range of media which it is capable of playing.

I suffered this niggle myself after solving my own ground noise issue with a USB 1.0 isolator and Toslink. This was not a major reason for replacing my two box solution (Topping D50s/A50s) with as single box, balanced solution (Topping EX5), but i'd be lying if I said the 'limitations' of USB 1.0 isolators and Toslink were not in the back of my mind when deciding to purchase the EX5.

 

[antcollinet]

How is 'USB to Toslink' not another box between the PC and DAC?

Of course it is (the person asking was objecting to an extra box for toslink: my statement could have been "that is just another box like the toslink converter is)

The point I was making is if you have to have a box, you might as well choose the cheaper of the two.

 

[Rockfella]

How is 'USB to Toslink' not another box between the PC and DAC?

I appreciate that Toslink can carry a signal that is way past transparent, but there is a certain 'niggle factor' to owning a USB DAC which cannot be fed via USB and play the full range of media which it is capable of playing.

I suffered this niggle myself after solving my own ground noise issue with a USB 1.0 isolator and Toslink. This was not a major reason for replacing my two box solution (Topping D50s/A50s) with as single box, balanced solution (Topping EX5), but i'd be lying if I said the 'limitations' of USB 1.0 isolators and Toslink were not in the back of my mind when deciding to purchase the EX5.

This is the biggest reason why it bothers me : Using toslink 9600 hz VS USB 384000 but I guess I have to stick with what I have. Topping HS02 is $170 in my country.

 

[Rockfella]

Of course it is (the person asking was objecting to an extra box for toslink: my statement could have been "that is just another box like the toslink converter is)

The point I was making is if you have to have a box, you might as well choose the cheaper of the two.

Already have sound card for toslink and everything works fine now but not in the best capacity though, the extra "work" is not worth it.

 

[antcollinet]

Using toslink 9600 hz VS USB 384000

You will never hear the difference between 24/96, and 24/384. Both are 100% audibly transparent. As is correctly implemented 24/48 - anything more is - in reality - simply a waste of bits.

Already have sound card for toslink

I understood from one of your posts above that you wanted to be free to use this soundcard in another system. Or did I misunderstand?

 

[Rockfella]

You will never hear the difference between 24/96, and 24/384. Both are 100% audibly transparent. As is correctly implemented 24/48 - anything more is - in reality - simply a waste of bits.


I understood from one of your posts above that you wanted to be free to use this soundcard in another system. Or did I misunderstand?

You did not, you are right but if I have to use the sound card in my main PC so be it
Edit: Might get the USB to Optical convertor later.

 

[Rockfella]

This should work

 

[unpluggged]

This is the biggest reason why it bothers me : Using toslink 9600 hz VS USB 384000

OMG. Are you aware that the DSP in your Kali LP-6 in any case resamples the signal to 48 kHz?

 

[antcollinet]

View attachment 408053

This should work

Yep, that should do it

 

[Berwhale]

View attachment 408053

This should work

I would suggest adding a SPDIF/Toslink bracket to your PC, but you have exactly the same motherboard as me and it doesn't have an SPDIF header on it

I looked for an SPDIF/Toslink bracket that could connect to a USB header on a motherboard, but nobody seems to make one (maybe a gap in the market there!).

You could make your own 'bracket' by mounting something like this on a PCI blanking plate and connecting to a USB header on your motherboard with something like this.