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Worst measuring loudspeaker?

MattHooper

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If you are seriously arguing that it is impossible to communicate effectively about sonics in an audio production environment using verbal language, then aren't you just arguing for some variety of willful autism?

This is a re-hash of the "warm" thread where some insisted it was impossible to assign useful meaning to commonly used idioms because said meanings depended on context. As if humans aren't aware of immediate context in a working environment, and correlate language accordingly, etc.

Very well put!

This is of a piece with the "Useless To Me = Useless For Thee" false generalizations.

The fact someone doesn't care to understand, for instance, what musicians mean in reference to musical nomenclature (e.g. Adagio, Forte etc) doesn't render those terms meaningless or useless. That's more about the individual rejecting those tools. You can't force anyone to accept the terms. But if someone rejects them, you just go on to get work done using them among people who care to understand the context and relevance.
 

Axo1989

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Such a treble boost can be a clever choice for their typical target group of old men
1022EstXBfig6.jpg

Fig.6 Estelon XB Diamond Mk.2, spatially averaged, 1/10-octave response (red), and of Wilson Alexx V (blue), in JCA's listening room.

Even the good and diplomatic JA mentions it in its conclusion:

The Estelon XB Diamond Mk II's measured performance is very good overall, though that excess of mid-treble energy may complicate setup and system optimization.—John Atkinson

It must be said though it can be equalised quite well as its (wide) directivity is quite smooth:
1022EstXBfig4.jpg

1022EstXBfig5.jpg

Source of all above measurements: https://www.stereophile.com/content/estelon-xb-diamond-mk2-loudspeaker-measurementsf

That peak around 4-5 kHz is similar to the voicing of Sony's flagship headphone, fun on some music, too much on others. Fortunately they aren't my only headphone. Of course you can EQ it and keep others positive aspects of the sonics.

Same with these speakers of course, I also noticed the off-axis stuff, it's pretty good. The cabinet is fairly inert and the CSD is pretty good also so I expect related aspects of the sonics are too. I'm not in the age demographic for that treble peak, or the income demographic for the RRP though.
 

chelgrian

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Good to see the UK once again leading the field,

Keith
I'm not sure Tannoy have any engineers left and they are mum about just how much manufacturing is in Scotland.

As far as I'm aware most of the engineers went to Fyne


Look familiar much?
 

Dialectic

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I'm not sure Tannoy have any engineers left and they are mum about just how much manufacturing is in Scotland.

As far as I'm aware most of the engineers went to Fyne


Look familiar much?
"engineers"
 

thewas

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I'm not sure Tannoy have any engineers left and they are mum about just how much manufacturing is in Scotland.

As far as I'm aware most of the engineers went to Fyne


Look familiar much?
Truth to be said most Fyne measurements I have seen till now, while maybe not as poor as on the old large vintage style Tannoy ones, don't look great either.

Tannoy now belongs to the Behringer group https://www.modernhifi.de/tannoy-behringer/ , would be more interested to see measurements of their newer low budget active monitors like https://www.thomannmusic.com/tannoy_gold_8.htm and the new low price 12" & 15" coaxial ones from Denmark https://vestlyd.com/
 

Recluse-Animator

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GIEGAR

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The worst I have seen are some "cute" CNC machined from plywood speakers designed by a non-engineer "by ear".
The name escapes me but they got a good review in HiFi News despite the appalling FR and I heard a pair at Scalford and was not horrified by what I heard!
...
Was it a Boenicke? The test results for the W5 always come to mind when the "worst measuring" topic comes up:

The subjective part review is mildly amusing too:
 

DanielT

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Incomparable. The manufacturers of the speaker models mentioned in the thread seem to have just randomly thrown speaker drivers into some random boxes and then put a damn high price tag on them.

But I am impressed by how it is even possible to get such bad speakers together. UNLESS the speaker manufacturers DELIBERATELY created them to have a FR that looks like it climbs high mountain, deep valleys?

Do the manufacturers for the models in the thread state dB deviations based on the frequency range of the speaker models? For example 45Hz-20KHz, +/- 3 dB? If they don't say anything about dB deviations (which is not correct), then at least they're not lying.
 
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crappypanther

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Incomparable. The manufacturers of the speaker models mentioned in the thread seem to have just randomly thrown speaker drivers into some random boxes and then put a damn high price tag on them.
One gets the feeling that the more expensive the speaker, the more extravagant the name of it and the manufacturer, as well as its appearance, the more disgusting its measurements and sound.
 

Dialectic

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One gets the feeling that the more expensive the speaker, the more extravagant the name of it and the manufacturer, as well as its appearance, the more disgusting its measurements and sound.
Perhaps we can get spinorama measurements of these.

With waveguides absent from the tweeter enclosures, I expect directivity error, but I am curious about other measured qualities....
 

Frank Dernie

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Was it a Boenicke? The test results for the W5 always come to mind when the "worst measuring" topic comes up:

The subjective part review is mildly amusing too:
I think it was that manufacturer but not that model, it was the W8 Iirc
 

fpitas

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Sheesh, my DIY speakers look like alien robots, too. I had no idea that was upscale.
 

fpitas

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It has two tweeters?
A quad of mids, two side by side above the horn, two below. The pairs of mids are in their own cabinets, stacked over and under the horn box for an MTM.. The MTM sits on a larger cabinet with a 15.
 

Frank Dernie

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About 30 years ago I decided to do a search for speakers I would be happy with for the rest of my life.
I genuinely hate evaluating equipment when I could be listening to music and I didn’t want to do it any more.
At the time I had a pair of Sonus Fabre Extremas and Apogee Diva with DAX active crossover.

Anyway the opinion of the high end magazines seemed to be that the best speaker ever was the original Wilson Audio WAMM and I discovered a French dealer near Paris had a used “pair” (they comprise 4 towers) so I arranged to go for a listen.
They were in a huge room which looked like it was formed by roofing over the courtyard of a U shaped house. Sidewall reflections were not a possibility…

Anyway, I was unimpressed but amazed to see they also had a pair of the original Goldmund Apologues - the ones they only ever made 50 pairs of - also in the room and also the slightly smaller Goldmund Analogue.
I listened to them whilst I was there and felt they had the most realistic instrumental timbre of any speakers I had ever heard. I actually preferred the Analogue, probably because it had fewer drivers to interfere with each other.

I nearly bought the Analogue there and then but Goldmund were about to release their new metal enclosure line, the Epilog, so I waited until the first module of the Epilogue was available for audition, it was a couple of years iirc..
In the end my short list was the Epilog, the Analogue and also the B&W Nautilus, I loved the look of that, and still do.

The nearest they still make to mine is the SATYA, but that is DSP active, mine aren’t.

Anyway I ended up with the Epilog1 with Epilog 2 bass system and am still enjoying it every day.

I have listened to a fair few speakers since and still haven’t found any I would get my wallet out for.

The Epilogue 1 doesn’t have a waveguide, too old I suppose, but the tweeter is mounted in the same acoustic plane as the mid and has an absorbent block around it shaped to reduce vertical dispersion considerably and to match tweeter to mid at the crossover.
 
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Recluse-Animator

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A quad of mids, two side by side above the horn, two below. The pairs of mids are in their own cabinets, stacked over and under the horn box for an MTM.. The MTM sits on a larger cabinet with a 15.
I'm even more confused by that description...
 

fpitas

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