Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Mojo Warrior]

Wilson Audio speaker owners are starting to look like a Cult.

 

[aj625]

Wow $10k speakers having such a peaky response ? Now wait for those audiophiles chipping in with " measurements are not related to sq, measurements don't matter, ears matter, hi-fi is all about type of sound one like " etc etc.

 

[Ziltoe]

I find the situation analogous to power cables if we do not consider price and measured performance and just look at pure subjective performance for the conclusion, and it scares me.

Not telling you something new [definitely not as a newcomer I am] but perhaps good to remember:

this review [as every other @amirm did] consists of:

- the measurements: this shows those who can interpret what it is about
- the listening impression: it is sort of well-being, happiness and yes, depends on the present mood

This makes his rating. The panther just summarises what @amirm measures, thinks and hear, at that particular time - that's all.

You have the choice, either look at his conclusion, which contains the measurements and listening impressions
or just look at the graphs and curves. Feel free making up your own opinion.

But please do not put into question what he is saying, remember, we are still in @amirm ASR and philosophy
and IMHO have to appreciate all the generated data we get for free, we can use for guidance, the measurements
and for those, appreciating @amirm subjective conclusions, even the opinion of a trained and experienced listener.

I do not agree that he has lost, as mentioned by several people, the focus regards the price vs performance relation
and finally a wrong panther score.

I find this discussion, leaded by many people, not really purposeful. We are talking about a piece of sound reproduction
device, some people appreciate [for some reasons - let 'em believe], some not [for other good reasons ; )].

It's a science review of a brand's speaker, which of course can and must be discussed in every facet. However, I have the
impression that many people driving down a manufacturer building [this] stuff which is "useless" within their environment or
opinion particularly for its price. Fine, obviously being not a potential customer of their products, why making it, again
and again a foolish device? Those know, keep your fingers off, there are much better and cheaper solutions around.

MY conclusion of this review: I'm doing right with my Genelec and JBL speakers : ) For less money, hurray. However, would
love to sit aside @amirm during his listening sessions. - Amen

 

[nc42acc]

 

[aj625]

Why it was not rated as headless panther ?

 

[ROOSKIE]

I did vote "not terrible", likely would have voted "fine" if they were under $2k.
$10k is to much for any speaker that is not truly SOFTA objectively and subjectively or as one says "in toto".

This would be a great speaker to include in a blind test. I have a feeling like @amirm found it sounds better than it looks on paper. After having experienced several speakers now that sound better to me than paper suggests and several that were not as good as implied by measurements alone I am deff open to this speaker being better sounding than the Harman score suggests.

Prolly time for that score to be evolved, of course that requires some significant resources and research. That still doesn't change the fact that I hope someone with those things does some more research publicly.

They used really nice drivers. Makes me curious about those drivers. Again after playing DIY for awhile and testing 20+ commercial designs at home there are deff some drivers out there that just sound better.

 

[DanielT]

Oh, cmon. Gross resonances, FR curve that looks like a civil war battle line, polar plot that could be significantly bettered by a $150 Behringer speaker which has a bigger, better woofer. and a preference score in the 2's. All for just $10k. Just another Wilson "smell my fart" design. How is this not a headless panther?

I'm an amateur, know a bit about design regarding speakers (note I mean a bit) but give me a list of a drivers and the ability to 3d print a waveguide to the tweeter and I can come up with something similar, …I think. Maybe better. At a MUCH lower cost. As long as I got to build a box that is free from resonances and really braced. Mix in measuring microphones and adjustable crossover filters to then optimally create passive ditto so ... Maybe. But the fact is that there are damn good drivers now that even a more or less stupid guy can get quite far with. Really big baffle, well then it can also be good, an amateur DIY speaker.

Edit:
As Samuel did with these. With 3 d printed waveguide. Samuel is not a fool but on the other hand he is not a professional speaker manufacturer.. I dare guess, can eat my hat if they are not better than these Wilson. Samuels DIY vs Wilson , Samuels much beteer at MUTCH lower cost.
I think it's these elements / driver thats in them:

SB SB26ADC-C000-4
SB SB15NBAC30-8
Satori WO24P-4

More pictures and information here:

Hifi Vintage DIY fair with pictures

I visited this fair yesterday! DIY & Vintage meeting in Mölnlycke Here is a short report. When: 6 November 2021 Where: Country: Sweden City: Gothenburg I took pictures myself BUT most were so damn blurred so I borrow pictures from this thread, taken by other participants. Pictures taken from...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Geert]

I have a feeling like @amirm found it sounds better than it looks on paper

I'm not sure we're drawing the right conclusions from the listening test:

when I played content with much bass content, it became overwhelming. I plugged the port but then there was not much bass to satisfy. So I removed the plug and deployed a few filters

Conclusions: these speakers are unusable without eq, which is not what you expect for 10k.

I am going to recommend the Wilson TuneTot with equalization

 

[heflys20]

I had to vote poor. Atrocious price vs performance, ugly; requires a good deal of equalization to be recommended and costs as much (or more) as better measuring active speakers with built in room correction.

I understand the recommendation doesn't take price into consideration, but no; it's irking the hell out of me.

 

[hvbias]

Thanks for the album recomendation, decided to play in my living room and check and indeed it sounds phenomenal, I have the saxo playing now next to me.

About amirm impressions on the speaker, I am also buffled. Perhaps is those scan-speak revelator driver that I heard a few times being mentioned as one of the best that help the speaker sound so good? I wouldn't know...

Anyways I can't take the price off my head....

Enjoy!

This is often cited as one of the greatest albums of the 1960s and making many greatest ever jazz lists. Many people consider it the crowning achievement of John Coltrane.

Here is another great one from Coltrane, Alabama, written after the 1963 Alabama church bombing by the KKK.

 

[nc42acc]

Wilson Audio
How to take the best drivers, cabinet materials and parts and make mediocre speakers. AND charge unobtanium prices.

 

[Beershaun]

Thanks to whomever loaned these to Amir for testing. I appreciate your willingness to ship these very expensive speakers so the community gets to see how they measure. I am really excited to see a set of Wilson speakers measured and then hear the subjective thoughts at the same time!

 

[RichT]

$10,000 for these guys, wow I'd rather buy some good quality snake oil

 

[Piranesi]

I wonder if Amir enjoyed them and felt they sounded "large" because of their especially wide directivity.

As atrocious as the on-axis looks, the overall reasonable predicted in-room and very high ratio of reflected sound (from wide directivity) would imply they might actually sound decently neutral and very spacious.

The original Harman research did not take into account directivity, IIRC, and many wide directivity speakers with poor-ish measurements (e.g. Ascend Sierra) have been subjectively reported to sound very good.

 

[MZKM]

The original Harman research did not take into account directivity,

Well, it’s pretty difficulty to make identically performing speakers where they only differ in dispersion width.

 

[JDS]

This speaker gives me a true hifi feeling from the old days. High end components put together like it was made by a guy with ocd in a shed, to get an end result that's pleasing to the ear. Reminds me of expensive watches and hypercars. I don't know if that should make me laugh, cry or be indifferent. People do weird things sometimes.

The mega-$ watch analogy is a good one. A thin $50 Swatch keeps better time than a bulky $50,000 grand complication from some craftsman in Geneva with an unpronounceable name. But, like with Wilson speakers, people buy them as jewelry that convey wealth and status, not for their nominal function.

We learned about products like these in Econ 101. They're known as Giffen goods: products that people consume more of as the price rises, usually because they are consuming the status conveyed by the good as much as the good itself.

The fact that these are not terrible with EQ will likely be irrelevant to the guys who connect them with kilobuck cables to tube amps and would never pollute their systems with digital conversions.

 

[Piranesi]

Well, it’s pretty difficulty to make identically performing speakers where they only differ in dispersion width.

With modern DSP it'd be feasible to use speakers with differing directivities but otherwise similar dimensions, layouts and driver size, and EQ them as closely as possible. Certainly not perfect, but that's one solution.

 

[beagleman]

I personally find Amir's listening impressions quite helpful. For anyone saying buy the Genelec 8361a instead, I can't help but feel that his comments about them sounding small and the Wilsons sounding larger than they were to be extremely valuable. Sean Olive used to have the Harman training program on his blog and I went through it and it is as extremely difficult as Amir says it is, so I definitely value his hearing impressions. So for me this is not a cut and dry issue of "just buy 8361a". I've also owned (and still own) several of the best measuring mini monitors under the $500 range and these continue to sound like miniature speakers even with several subwoofers. To prevent any sarcastic retort about why I still own them it's because if ~ $1500 worth of speakers (good luck stealing the subs!) were stolen from my office I'd be upset but it wouldn't be devastating.

I am not sure I understand what you mean, by saying they sound like miniature speakers, even with subwoofers.

Would that not in some regard show a lack of proper integration, or some huge response issue in either the subs or monitors or both?


I think I have heard the issue you describe, but it seemed to be a lack of midbass, due to bad integration of the sub to the low end of the monitor, or phase issues which cancel out a part of the bass range, due to distance between the sub and monitor.

After all A sub and mini monitor, are really the same thing as a big 3-way speaker, with the lows simply in another box.....

 

[JDS]

I personally find Amir's listening impressions quite helpful. For anyone saying buy the Genelec 8361a instead, I can't help but feel that his comments about them sounding small and the Wilsons sounding larger than they were to be extremely valuable. Sean Olive used to have the Harman training program on his blog and I went through it and it is as extremely difficult as Amir says it is, so I definitely value his hearing impressions. So for me this is not a cut and dry issue of "just buy 8361a". I've also owned (and still own) several of the best measuring mini monitors under the $500 range and these continue to sound like miniature speakers even with several subwoofers. To prevent any sarcastic retort about why I still own them it's because if ~ $1500 worth of speakers (good luck stealing the subs!) were stolen from my office I'd be upset but it wouldn't be devastating.

Going back to the annals of my audiophile journey I recall it was Wilson What Puppy 5 (or 6?) that really impressed me at a hifi show. One of my favorite albums at the time was John Coltrane's A Love Supreme, and the imaging on these was quite remarkable. Even more obvious was the fact that Rudy Van Gelder just didn't record piano properly and it sounds like a very small boxy instrument. This is evident on nearly any RVG recording where he also recorded horns, because to him the horn sound was the most important. These were recordings made to be played on 1950s and 1960s home consoles and the Wilson WP showed exactly this issue. I was working at Best Buy at the time and had their highest end JBL tower speakers that I got for a remarkable 40 or 60% off due to employee discount and on these speakers the presentation on A Love Supreme was more like a wall of sound where imaging was diffuse and all instruments were given equal size which was incorrect.

The major issue for me with Wilsons has always been how they will tank in value once they bring out a new speaker. I sure as heck couldn't afford the What Puppy 5 but when the next one came out there was a flash flood of the previous model on the used marked. By two or three revisions later even my meager pay could afford the ones I heard, but I chose to avoid them for this reason. I've been seeing the same pattern with them decades later.

Anyway, from the great The Sopranos that is my "$4 a pound"

At the risk of being deleted for going off-topic ... I have always hated the way RVG miked pianos. It comes through on even cheap headphones.

 

[Inner Space]

A thin $50 Swatch keeps better time than a bulky $50,000 grand complication from some craftsman in Geneva with an unpronounceable name. But, like with Wilson speakers, people buy them as jewelry that convey wealth and status ...

Yeah, but Wilson has kind of short-circuited that strategy with the name, don't you think? Imagine a visitor to a rich guy's living room:

"Wow, those are cool speakers!"
"Thanks - they're Wilsons."
"Cool ... what model?"
"Tune Tots."
"Oh."