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Will consumers buy the Dutch & Dutch 8C?

suttondesign

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#1
Forum members, do you think consumers, as opposed to music industry pros, will buy all-in-one speakers like the Dutch & Dutch 8C's? Note, we have no published specs or details on the quality of the digital guts, or even the amps inside. I'm wondering whether to pick up this line, but I'm quite uncertain.
 
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#2
I think that music lovers with deep pockets will buy them. Simplicity is a key factor for many - elegant matching stands would be nice though. Something similar like Manger C1 has? (I mean the stands)
 

suttondesign

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#3
I think that music lovers with deep pockets will buy them. Simplicity is a key factor for many - elegant matching stands would be nice though. Something similar like Manger C1 has? (I mean the stands)
Thank you for that. Too expensive to ship the stands too from Europe, esp. given that we have Sound Anchors here in the US.
 

Dialectic

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#4
Forum members, do you think consumers, as opposed to music industry pros, will buy all-in-one speakers like the Dutch & Dutch 8C's? Note, we have no published specs or details on the quality of the digital guts, or even the amps inside. I'm wondering whether to pick up this line, but I'm quite uncertain.
Yes, and I've put my money where my mouth is.
 

suttondesign

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#5

Dialectic

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#6
Are you concerned about the required aes/xlr-type connection for digital?
No. I'm using a cheap Hosa toslink-to-aes adapter. Works fine and I'm not worried about jitter because the 8Cs DSP everything anyway.
 

dc655321

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#7
Note, we have no published specs or details on the quality of the digital guts, or even the amps inside.
Not so.

This is all covered in various places. A little searching is all it takes...
Start with the inaugural(?) review.

Fully active means built-in amplifiers, here 250w/ea. for the tweeter and mid, 500w for the twin woofers. After ample comparisons, the designers felt that the Danish Pascal Audio S-PRO2 modules were ideal for the job. These are billed as UMAC Class D units with integrated UREC power supplies. Each can deliver 1000 watts in bridged mode; or 2 x 500 watts as Dutch & Dutch use them. Pascal Audio's chief designer has prior history with B&O whilst working on their ICE technology. Background information on the S-PRO2 module can be found here. With power dealt with, DSP was next. The chip of choice, chiefly for its redundancy, is the Analog Devices ADAU1452. This 1.2V 32-bit DSP core can run at up to 294'912MHz and execute up to 6'144 instructions/sample at the standard rate of 48kHz. This fully programmable chip easily handles the present needs but has headroom for more future functionality. Next to the extra storage capacity, high accuracy can perform lossless volume control. For DAC and ADC duties, Dutch & Dutch rely on the TI PCM4104 and PCM4202.
 
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#9
Forum members, do you think consumers, as opposed to music industry pros, will buy all-in-one speakers like the Dutch & Dutch 8C's? Note, we have no published specs or details on the quality of the digital guts, or even the amps inside. I'm wondering whether to pick up this line, but I'm quite uncertain.
Yes. I've bought them. I'm running them from a MiniDSP SHD-Studio which has an AES out. They aren't as good as my Grimms, which swayed me to this kind of speaker. But they are smaller, cheaper, and damned good.
 

Dialectic

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#10
I don't believe there will be a lot of sales at that price range, especially considering the audiophile preference for mix and match.
You are perhaps right, but when the parts are selected and optimized by experts, the results are far beyond what can be achieved with the amateur mix-and-match approach.
 

Blumlein 88

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#11
I wish I could say yes. I've thought active speakers with line level crossovers prior to the amps were so much better than how conventional passive speakers are done they should have taken over the market or at least had a large presence. It hasn't happened yet.

Beyond the inability of swapping components, there is the legit concern about what happens if one part goes bad years and years down the road. With conventional setups if the DAC goes bad I get another. If the amp goes out I get another. If the speaker blows up I get another or buy and replace the drivers. With something like this all in one unit should any part go out, I don't know how easily one can get it fixed, and will you be able 10 or more years down the road.

OTOH, I've some Tact gear which was an all combined DAC, preamp, power amp, and room correction unit. I used it for more than a decade. It still all works. I've moved on for other reasons, and the company is no longer in business. I received good value from the unit, and even versus current gear it is by no means embarrassed in regards to the quality of its function.

The 8C is by all accounts extraordinary. So there will be some customers. I just don't know if it will become a big hit. If I had to lay money on a bet, I'd say no. I think it has a good chance, but losing money is more costly than waiting and gaining a lesser amount down the road. I'd feel better about the company's chances if they had about 3 different models with two at lower cost than the 8C. Or if the company planned on that in the near future. I've no idea if they do or not. If I personally were about to spend money in or around the price of the 8C, I likely would buy them. They would be at the top of a very short list. Others on the list would be the Revels at a similar price, and the Kii Three. I'm sure I could add a couple more were I really about to purchase something in that price range.
 

suttondesign

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#12
Since I began running my Linkwitz Orions in 2007, they have never required a repair, nor their outboard signal processor, nor the beefy, high-quality ATI 12-channel amp. However, I had a DAC that quit -- that gets right to Blumlein's point. But I've never had any other DAC fail. So. Hmmmm. I would need to sell a handful of Dutch's to repay the initial outlay, and even the initial outlay could be recovered by selling the demonstrator and regular stock -- assuming there are buyers!
 

Dialectic

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#13
Since I began running my Linkwitz Orions in 2007, they have never required a repair, nor their outboard signal processor, nor the beefy, high-quality ATI 12-channel amp. However, I had a DAC that quit -- that gets right to Blumlein's point. But I've never had any other DAC fail. So. Hmmmm. I would need to sell a handful of Dutch's to repay the initial outlay, and even the initial outlay could be recovered by selling the demonstrator and regular stock -- assuming there are buyers!
Wait until the Stereophile review hits next week.
 

Soniclife

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#14
Not so.

This is all covered in various places. A little searching is all it takes...
Start with the inaugural(?) review.
And I think the computer inside is a BeagleBone Black.

Given that most of the bits seem of the shelf would that not make them quite repairable?

I'd be most concerned about the firmware image if the company went under, unless that's already published.
 

Soniclife

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#15
I've often wondered how the industry breaks down between people who obsessively change kit, and people who are prepared to buy a proper hifi, then simply use it till it breaks. I'm sure that hifi shops when they were in city centers did good trade to the second group, are those buyers gone, did they ever exist in big numbers, if not then this sort of active speaker seems perfect.
 

Purité Audio

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#16
Generally it is the older guys, ( who have swallowed the marketing) that have the mix and match systems searching for the next ‘upgrade’ which will bring audio nirvana, our 8C customers tend to be much younger and thankfully see through the BS.
The 8Cs are exceptional and there will be a smaller and larger version, in time.
Keith
 

andrew

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#17
Generally it is the older guys, ( who have swallowed the marketing) that have the mix and match systems searching for the next ‘upgrade’ which will bring audio nirvana, our 8C customers tend to be much younger and thankfully see through the BS.
The 8Cs are exceptional and there will be a smaller and larger version, in time.
Keith
Thanks, Keith, you made me feel younger! I'd guess that older guys t with a large investment in existing components find it more difficult to replace the all their beloved kit (and likely don't have the driver of a small footprint solution that will work in a shared living space). For me, though, the 8c are the only speakers that have met the twin criteria of great sound and good WAF / small footprint. If, SD, I was looking for a target consumer market then I'd guess Keith would be right in that it's younger audiophiles with less of an investment in existing kit, a shared living area, who looking for a major upgrade.
 

suttondesign

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#18
Wow, thanks everyone for these comments. I was feeling lucky and committed late in the day today to Dutch & Dutch. I'll move over to the Desperate Dealers forum now. BTW, Purité Audio was extremely gracious to me in this decisionmaking process.
 

Daverz

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#19
I made this mistake with the NHT Xd system: proprietary DSP, locked into their electronics, a dead end.

I would prefer an open and modular system like the previously mentioned Orion.
 

Dialectic

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#20
I made this mistake with the NHT Xd system: proprietary DSP, locked into their electronics, a dead end.

I would prefer an open and modular system like the previously mentioned Orion.
We hope that D&D will be around longer than NHT was. Enthusiasm about the 8Cs in the pro world is promising.
 
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