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Will consumers buy the Dutch & Dutch 8C?

Purité Audio

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Was reading a dutch test about D&D 8C conclusion was great speakers but quite difficult to implement the roomcorrection. Basicly if you change your room setup you have to start from scratch. I can relate to that with mine own setup using mathaudio room EQ. I have different measurments for instance listning with curtains open or closed the difference is quite noteble. I realy had to learn how to do proper measurments with the neccecary microfoon measuring points etc. Don't know how the D&D measure the room but probably it is quite difficult esspecialy if you don't have the needed knoledge. Don't think age have anything to do with that.
A, the Dutch&Dutch have 24 inbuilt parametric EQ filters so you can adjust them, which I can attest is really useful when you install completely full-range speakers in a domestic room.
I use a microphone and REW software to measure the room, I only tend to correct the major low bass ( room mode) peaks, I suppose you could create a ‘curtain’ filter, they take seconds to create and you can enable/disable them on the fly from the 8Cs app.
Keith
 

Purité Audio

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The real issue is not the technology. But the price point. Let’s be real, they are expensive even though they are an all in one component. People that can afford it probably don’t care about things like reliability or anything. If it strikes their fancy they buy it. When they are tired of it they buy the next thing that strikes their fancy.

But it still comes down to how many people are going to be willing to pay that price? Clearly there are some but nowhere near the mass market levels of much cheaper speakers.
They are £9k inc vat a pair, everything is included, you can literally just add sources of your choice, digital or analogue, they outperform every passive loudspeaker system we have pitched them against at any price.
Keith
 

Snarfie

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A, the Dutch&Dutch have 24 inbuilt parametric EQ filters so you can adjust them, which I can attest is really useful when you install completely full-range speakers in a domestic room.
I use a microphone and REW software to measure the room, I only tend to correct the major low bass ( room mode) peaks, I suppose you could create a ‘curtain’ filter, they take seconds to create and you can enable/disable them on the fly from the 8Cs app.
Keith
Hi Keith i'm with you an if i realy do my best i am convinced i will manage evetualy. But this 8C's are for people/users that are a 110% into the usage an theory. So the users/ buyers group is quit minimal imo. If you sell this speakers to a buyer with minimal knoledge the speakers will never reach their potential. A practical solution is creat an app that tells you to put the 8C's where you want them an push this roomcorrection button an leave the room in 10 seconds an come back after measurments are done.
 
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JJB70

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With £9k to spend I would hope pretty much any of the available options would sound splendid.
 

Purité Audio

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Their ‘theory’ is to provide better sound quality , I rather assumed that , that was every enthusiasts goal?
IME older listeners who have swallowed the ‘kool aid’ have the most difficulty believing that a relatively compact standmounts totally destroys their hugely expensive traditional system, with its huge amplifiers, three box dac external clock etc etc.
Younger intelligent guys get ‘it’ straightaway, mixing/mastering engineers hear the transparency straight away they understand the advantage of cardioid, phase coherence, perfect step, full -range, boundary coupling. Etc etc.
Keith
 

Frank Dernie

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Let’s be real, they are expensive even though they are an all in one component. People that can afford it probably don’t care about things like reliability or anything.
I could afford some and do not consider them expensive for what they do (at all) but being able to sit down and enjoy listening to music with great convenience is more important to me than selling all my stuff to buy some and then have to control it and play music on them using a computer for their improvement over what I already have.
Also reliability is absolutely the most important aspect of anything I buy, be it hifi, cars or washing machines. Anything which breaks down is 100% a failure IMO.
If they had existed in the mid 1990s when I did my "final big upgrade" I would certainly have bought them then, but probably the Kii/BXT because of its controller or the B&O 90 for slightly more confidence in the longevity of the manufacturer, but they didn't and so my "final upgrade" did not even evaluate anything like them.
 

garbulky

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I could afford some and do not consider them expensive for what they do (at all) but being able to sit down and enjoy listening to music with great convenience is more important to me than selling all my stuff to buy some and then have to control it and play music on them using a computer for their improvement over what I already have.
Also reliability is absolutely the most important aspect of anything I buy, be it hifi, cars or washing machines. Anything which breaks down is 100% a failure IMO.
If they had existed in the mid 1990s when I did my "final big upgrade" I would certainly have bought them then, but probably the Kii/BXT because of its controller or the B&O 90 for slightly more confidence in the longevity of the manufacturer, but they didn't and so my "final upgrade" did not even evaluate anything like them.
Relaibility and longevity is also important for me - hence my two channel setup. I have no experience with B&O products. Out of curiosity what did your upgrade end up being? When I was talking about people that could afford it, I was talking about people that just wanted the best thing and the cost and other considerations don't matter due to their financial status. They want it? It's theirs. That kind of thing.
 

Frank Dernie

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Relaibility and longevity is also important for me - hence my two channel setup. I have no experience with B&O products. Out of curiosity what did your upgrade end up being? When I was talking about people that could afford it, I was talking about people that just wanted the best thing and the cost and other considerations don't matter due to their financial status. They want it? It's theirs. That kind of thing.
My "final upgrade" wasn't really since i have replaced the amp/preamp/DAC but the speakers are Goldmund Epilog 1&2, no longer made, and the CD transport is a Goldmund Mimesis 36+. I had Goldmund Mimesis 20, 22 and 29.4 mono amps but changed to Devialet years ago after one of the 29.4s needed repairing.
 

dc655321

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Trying to account for the expense of a product by pricing out a parts list is naive. At best.

R&D, NRE costs, production, labor (!!!), marketing, are far greater slices of the pie.
The software development and support for this product would be far greater than the parts list.

Yes, this is an expensive system. But to me, system is the key concept of this offering.
Smart, elegant acoustic design coupled with fairly powerful digital and software platform makes for a potent and flexible system.

Having said that, I would agonize over spending that kind of cash on an audio system.
To my (admittedly warped) thinking, it is much more fun to attempt to build such a system myself...
 

Dogan

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For what is worth, Genelec offers 5 years of warranty if you registered your speakers. I also got a 10+ year old B&O serviced recently and I remember finding the repair cost rather reasonable.

I'm currently using KEF LS50W. Although they have some shortcomings in terms of usability, to be able to directly stream the music to the speakers is quite convenient. What if they are broken after the warranty period is expired and KEF goes bankrupt in the meantime? Well, then I suppose I have to write down 2k EUR but the same risk is there for many other more expensive products and services. Take Tesla, their financials are not bright but somehow many people are still buying their cars. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks.

Dogan
 
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Having said that, I would agonize over spending that kind of cash on an audio system.
To my (admittedly warped) thinking, it is much more fun to attempt to build such a system myself...
Not warped at all. An inherent satisfaction comes from efforts like that, even if the final product doesn't quite live up to expectations.
It's all an excellent learning experience and provides a better basis to understand various commercial offerings and the trade-offs/shortcomings they have.

These particular speakers are just off-the-charts expensive (understandably so), which renders most considerations pretty much irrelevant.

Dave.
 

garbulky

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My "final upgrade" wasn't really since i have replaced the amp/preamp/DAC but the speakers are Goldmund Epilog 1&2, no longer made, and the CD transport is a Goldmund Mimesis 36+. I had Goldmund Mimesis 20, 22 and 29.4 mono amps but changed to Devialet years ago after one of the 29.4s needed repairing.
They all look fantastic!
 

Snarfie

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q3cpma

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For that insane price, I'd rather have a pair of Genelec 8260 with a GLM kit. Or the 1237/1238, so you have actives with the electronics outside; but you lose the coaxial advantage and the UFO look of regular Genelecs.
Well, I wouldn't because GLM is propietary software that only work on Windows/MacOS, but you get the idea.
 
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JJB70

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In fairness, once you go into the higher end of audio prices do tend to go silly and these are far from the most expensive speakers. And they do essentially represent a system. Yes they are expensive but nothing like as expensive as many of the alternatives. On the other hand yoy can pay 10 - 20% of the price these go for and get an excellent pair of active studio monitors which are probably already past the point of diminishing returns.
 

audiophool

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In fairness, once you go into the higher end of audio prices do tend to go silly and these are far from the most expensive speakers. And they do essentially represent a system. Yes they are expensive but nothing like as expensive as many of the alternatives. On the other hand yoy can pay 10 - 20% of the price these go for and get an excellent pair of active studio monitors which are probably already past the point of diminishing returns.

For nearfield, I agree. The slope of diminishing returns feels strong after I "upgraded" from Focal Shape 65 to Genelec 8341. Also demoed Dutch 8C, Kii Three, and some other speakers. But for far field, you will definitely need to spend a lot more to get good dynamics and sound quality.
 

Sal1950

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IME older listeners who have swallowed the ‘kool aid’ have the most difficulty believing that a relatively compact standmounts totally destroys their hugely expensive traditional system, with its huge amplifiers,
Oh brother, here we go with the greatest thing since sliced bread, all else is gaslight BS, how many times have we heard dealers and magazines vomit up that line?
This years rave is next years junk (decade if you prefer). Audiophiles are a fickle bunch, the top magazines and websites have all done their reviews now, so what do you think they'll publish next year, they won't close the doors cause the 8c came out. Better sell that stock fast Keith, or you'll be selling them for 20% of retail like your Cessaro horns.
The Kii, D&D, B&O are great speakers I'm sure, but there are other options. I believe the audiphile market will still be in separates, with DSP and automated measure and tune options included. From the JBL M2, to systems using electronics like the latest Anthem lineup with ARC software. Offering everything the audiophool market demands, dozens and dozens of choices to review and swoon over. MHO is that a few years from now the all-in-one rigs like 8c with slide out of favor as being simple "lifestyle" products and the separate options continue to dominate. Not only offering the tweakablity audiophiles demand, but even better sound in the long run. Lets face it, the little stand mount speaker designs of 8c/Kii and their propriatary DSP designs are not the last word in audio engineering and will be surpassed in the very near future.
 

Purité Audio

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God bless America.
The 8Cs and Kiis are really good Sal, I don’t know why the giant US companies can’t bring it something as innovative, and I know it must sting a little perhaps you should ask them?
Keith
 

Purité Audio

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For that insane price, I'd rather have a pair of Genelec 8260 with a GLM kit. Or the 1237/1238, so you have actives with the electronics outside; but you lose the coaxial advantage and the UFO look of regular Genelecs.
Well, I wouldn't because GLM is propietary software that only work on Windows/MacOS, but you get the idea.
Had the 8260a’s and matching 7270 subs when they were introduced, they are good, just not as good.

And the Genelec 8260a/7270 combination is much more expensive than the ;insanely’ priced 8Cs.
Keith
 
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