Will active speakers end up as e-waste?

[Digby]

now now

He's taking the hiss.

 

[Chrispy]

Hard to pick on active speakers in terms of disposable nature of consumer electronics in general (from production thru consumption). I have donated a few passive speakers to the recycler in the last 50 years, but most continue to be put to work, my one pair of actives, we'll see.

 

[mhardy6647]

That's a great question, and one that is becoming more and more relevant as we continue to see an increase in the use of active speakers. When it comes to the issue of e-waste, it's true that failing amplifiers can often be the culprit behind active speakers becoming obsolete. This is definitely a concern, especially in light of the push for more sustainable practices and reducing the amount of waste that ends up in landfills.

However, it's important to note that the situation is not necessarily bleak. There are certainly brands, such as Genelec and Neumann, that have a reputation for producing active speakers that offer long-lasting and reliable performance. These companies often use high-quality components and rigorous testing processes to ensure that their products can stand the test of time.

In short, while the risk of active speakers becoming e-waste is something to consider, it's also possible to find speakers that are designed with longevity in mind. By making informed choices and choosing products from reputable manufacturers, you can help minimize your impact on the environment and ensure that your speakers serve you well for years to come.

I'm going to endeavor to put this in the least snarky way that I can: @Steve_404 you sound like ChatGPT (or whatever it's called). The only non-AI sounding phrase in the above is "There are certainly brands..."

 

[mhardy6647]

Not just speakers, some very nice vintage B&O turntables go for a pittance because the their proprietary cartridges are nowhere to be found. I'm sure there are other examples as well.

Authorized replacements are still available from Soundsmith, and I believe they'll also retip some of the older cartridges for which they do not make replacements.

https://www.sound-smith.com/bo-cartridges

https://www.sound-smith.com/bo-turntable-and-cartridge-lookup-chart

 

[Inner Space]

How many broken active speakers have you seen in your life?

Anecdotal reports are useful, but necessarily retrospective, and I expect the numbers from the last twenty years will be different than the next twenty.

My personal answer is zero - no broken active speakers in many decades of use. In fact some heroic durability - I have some 20-yr-old K&Hs that have been powered up continuously for 18 years and in use probably 12 hours a day, six days a week. I once dropped a Genelec 8351 down a flight of stairs - it bounced end over end, smashed a window, and landed in the parking lot. We tried it and it worked fine. Still does.

But those are multi-thousand-dollar items, sometimes tens of thousands, from a specialist and vanishing culture. The nearfield-only "bedroom producer" - strictly from a technical viewpoint - inhabits a different ecology, which seems driven by price, which is already very low. So I bet the music biz over the next period will see failed active speakers far more often than it used to.

 

[supercargo]

This is an issue of repairability more than anything specific to active or passive speakers. Repairability is higher when relatively more standard (or widely available) parts are used and the overall system is either well documented or easily discernible.

In theory, everything behind the enclosure and drivers in an active speaker can be implemented in software running on generic hardware. Right now, the rate of innovation for actives may be too high to easily support standardization, but there may come a point where the only thing standing in the way is artificial manufacturer “lock in” (see John Deere).

 

[YSC]

Active speakers would represent an increasing amount of, potentially unnecessary e-waste, if the trend here is anything to go by. I replace my smartphone less frequently than many and would prefer it if they lasted longer, but a loudspeaker is essentially a very simple thing, a modern computer is not. It may not be within the realm of feasibility to make computers last much longer than they do, whilst providing adequate performance. It is certainly far easier to keep speakers from becoming waste.


No, that is incorrect. Depending on the fault, it may not be particularly labour intensive, expensive or difficult to fix. Repairing can often allow a superior product to remain running, rather than buying a new, inferior product for the cost of repair.


I'm trying to understand your approach, perhaps we are just different people. If I like a pair of speakers now and have space/use for them in the future, I will continue to use them. Do you buy new products purely because things 'get old', even if performance is still satisfying? Loudspeakers can give decades of good use without much in the way of deterioration (at least that which cannot be easily fixed).

I understand that there are performance gains with active speakers, but from a green point of view, is it good to take a simple thing with good longevity and make it complex with rather more limited longevity?

actually ppl throw away passive system components just as frequent as actives at the price points, for most cases they are ditched as e waste not because it breaks, but something newer and better comes out! and you have to think about that passive stuffs usually get much thicker and fenizer cables and other accessories due to how the market works, there are much more metal, extra electronic headroom in the power amp used than a well designed active, imagine how many of the amps you have to throw away in an active like a pair of genelec vs a stand alone amp? not to say the more inefficient tube amp with all those exotic tubes rolling

 

[Ken Tajalli]

actually ppl throw away passive system components just as frequent as actives at the price points, for most cases they are ditched as e waste not because it breaks, but something newer and better comes out! and you have to think about that passive stuffs usually get much thicker and fenizer cables and other accessories due to how the market works, there are much more metal, extra electronic headroom in the power amp used than a well designed active, imagine how many of the amps you have to throw away in an active like a pair of genelec vs a stand alone amp? not to say the more inefficient tube amp with all those exotic tubes rolling

I think the point was that Active speakers contain e-waste.
electronic waste has some toxic materials in them that passive speakers may not.
I also believe that this thread may have started because of the massive surge in cheaper powered speakers sales in recent years.
The proper and more expensive active speakers, have too much value in used market, to be simply chucked in the bin.

 

[fpitas]

Yeah, because over the years it's freaking expensive. Thankfully the Salon2s got me off that bus ride. I've been tempted over the past 12 years, but never blew another wad replacing them. The last time it was the Genelec 8361/371 combo. I'm so glad I haven't found a way to hear them yet.

The Salon2s will be hard to beat. But if you dare, go listen to JBL K2 S9900s. Different beast, but equally spectacular.

 

[Zvu]

E-scrap is one thing to worry environmentally but the major issue is the unregulated production.
If you really worry about things search about the production ethics.
I know I did,I want my kids to live as well as I do.

Unregulated buying i'd say

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Unregulated buying i'd say

So true.
Last week I got a notification from eBay, an offer of 80% off sellers fee, so i statted selling some of my stuff.
I sold a bunch within hours!
Getting high on that, i started selling more stuff, didn't know how much stuff I had, just gathering dust.
I ain't gonna stop, I am gonna sell a lot of my stuff I don't need or haven't used in eons, To make some room.
Then I'm gonna buy those things I always wanted, but didn't have room for it.
Ain't eBay grand!

 

[Zvu]

Try buying stuff you need not what you want. That will regulate production pretty fast

 

[Digby]

Try buying stuff you need not what you want.

Define the boundary between need and want. By the strictest parameters, probably a full 90% of the people using this forum never "need" a piece of audio equipment again.

 

[Zvu]

-"Need" means that you don't have something. "Need" makes you think about your purchase. If you need it, how long will the product last. If that parameter gets thumbs up, then you have to think about how futureproof that device is. If that also gets a positive, then that product is right for you.

-"Want" doesn't need you to think. Quite the opposite, it relies on you not thinking at all. You want it, you better grab it. Who gives a damn if it has to be storaged somewhere because you didn't need it in the first place.

Everyone knows for himself the difference between Need and Want. People just don't want to look at that dragon because it is not pleasant. But unpleasant things build character so i'd advice anyone to try - there's no harm in that. You can always go back the old beaten path, but the Need path is worth exploring and can be quite rewarding.

Imagine this. You buy more of what you really need and less of what you want (notice i wrote less, you don't have to stop, just regulate the urge a bit). Consequently you end up with more cash in your pockets. You see your son/daughter needs something, you give them some cash to help make it happen. You decided to give them the money, but you tell them that you borrowed them - so that they know stuff aren't free in this world. You don't push them to return it, but if they do, you leave it aside to give them again if they need it.

I try to think like that. I'm in no way as succesfull as i want to be but i do try

The hardest thing was to not get rid of my CRT TV when plasma and led TV's showed up. My Samsung, for better or for worse, was in full working order so there was no excuse for getting a new TV. I couldn't be happier when my mom called and told me her TV was broken. I gave her mine and bought some 1080p TV (this was some time ago). I'll probably buy a projector when this thing breaks down

 

[YSC]

Define the boundary between need and want. By the strictest parameters, probably a full 90% of the people using this forum never "need" a piece of audio equipment again.

well actually this is precisely why e-waste are generated, and I would argue passive users create more e-waste as there are more "points" they will be tempted to upgrade/change, compare how many caps/transistors are in an active speaker, then look at most fancy passive gears with overbuilt or littered with exotic parts you will see how much e-waste is created when one is disposed. Now if you see how many ppl throw away old gear which are fully/mostly functioning you can see the trend.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Define the boundary between need and want. By the strictest parameters, probably a full 90% of the people using this forum never "need" a piece of audio equipment again

How do you know that?
Is it because ASR has let people know that they don't really need to upgrade every year?
That their gear may be fine, no need for a fancy cable or power conditioners ?

 

[dimedrol]

I have a pair of adam a5x's fully recapped and nevertheless producing slight but noticeable howling noise. They have served me 12 years. Not sure what to do about them at this point. They are not good enough as my desktop speakers anymore but at the same time they are not complete garbage yet. Will perhaps gift them to someone as TV speakers. They should beat any soundbar in SQ still and the noise won't be noticeable from 2 meters and beyond.

 

[-Matt-]

I once dropped a Genelec 8351 down a flight of stairs - it bounced end over end, smashed a window, and landed in the parking lot. We tried it and it worked fine. Still does.

This will sound so ludicrous to those who have not handled Genelecs that they will believe you are joking. I don't recommend that method of transportation, but they really are this solidly built.

 

[-Matt-]

In answer to the original question...

My take is that traditionally anything with moving parts tends to fail first.

If you look at 20-30 year old passive speakers (assuming they haven't been otherwise damaged)... (and assuming they haven't been replaced) then the paper cones and rubber suspension are the most likely failure points as they tend to disintegrate.

For electronics such as amplifiers of the same vintage it is probably the switches and knobs, and speaker binding posts etc that fail first. If components such as resistors or capacitors fail (and there have been some bad batches over the years) then these can often be replaced with standard components that are relatively easy to source.

Looking forward, a major problem for repairing electronic devices is access to the proprietary firmware. Even if you can replace a failed IC, you may not be able to repair the device if the company has gone under and there is no way to get hold of the firmware it needs to operate.

The most important part in reducing waste is designing and encouraging people to buy higher quality items in the first place. (Those that are designed with longevity and repairability in mind).

Active speakers combine moving parts in the drivers with electronic components in the amplifiers - therefore more potential failure points. However, this integration probably makes them more worthwhile to repair.

I.e. In a passive/separates setup, when one item fails (eg passive speaker) it is very easy (and relatively cheap) to replace that item. Hence more likely that the passive speaker ends up in landfill. Eg. Total system cost = £3000, passive speakers cost = £500.

In contrast in an integrated/active system (of the same total value - £3000) when one part fails the entire value of the system is potentially lost. This gives a greater incentive to repair, rather than replace, the system.

 

[Zvu]

well actually this is precisely why e-waste are generated, and I would argue passive users create more e-waste as there are more "points" they will be tempted to upgrade/change, ....

There is no logic in this since people aren't leaving equipment that they upgrade by the dumpster but they rather sell it. That's how less fortunate get to have in their homes equipment they couldn't afford new.

.... compare how many caps/transistors are in an active speaker, then look at most fancy passive gears with overbuilt or littered with exotic parts you will see how much e-waste is created when one is disposed...

Passive gear that is overbuilt or littered with exotic parts is called hi-end gear and as long as it is in working order (which for passive loudspeakers is at least 30+ years, and that's not for hi-end but for commercial products) there is no electronic waste.

...Now if you see how many ppl throw away old gear which are fully/mostly functioning you can see the trend.

I know none of those and haven't seen any functioning loudspeaker or amplifier by the dumpster --- ever. I know people donate working old gear or sell it in flea markets and/or e-bay.