WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[harkpabst]

What you red is not true, they are reflections on many surfaces, I think it was only in the case of room modes.

But depending on the reflection coefficient of the materials, you can have troubles on any place of the spectrum.

Also is nothing bad about correcting the speaker frequency curve, if doing it subtle.

This is a massive simplification, at best.

Correction over the entire frequency range is usually something between difficult to do and pointless.

 

[Miguelón]

This is a massive simplification, at best.

Correction over the entire frequency range is usually something between difficult to do and pointless.

Hummm, I was not advising to correct the whole range but I don’t find any reason to limit only to 300 Hz.

If you’re going to stay on a sweet spot all time, reflecions are important. Of course if you move constantly (as I often do when listening to ambient music), just some room modes… I even let one single speaker on, if I’m not listening in front of speakers.

I agree, is a lot simplistic, but you can agree that if some dip or spike is bothering, whatever the frequency, one can freely modify it and verify the result. By mic and by ear

 

[EJ3]

Hummm, I was not advising to correct the whole range but I don’t find any reason to limit only to 300 Hz.

If you’re going to stay on a sweet spot all time, reflections are important. Of course if you move constantly (as I often do when listening to ambient music), just some room modes… I even let one single speaker on, if I’m not listening in front of speakers.

I agree, is a lot simplistic, but you can agree that if some dip or spike is bothering, whatever the frequency, one can freely modify it and verify the result. By mic and by ear

I rarely am sitting in the "sweet" spot and am almost always moving around.
In my living room there (where the stereo is) is a bay window (about triple the size of a normal window on the right (as you are facing the stereo), slightly longer side wall, naturally causing some side reflections. I do not have any form of DSP (yet) but have done something that is A. adjustable B. the adjustments affect the reflections form the bay window C. this was accidentally discovered through my wife's, natural design inclinations.
She had me hang a 2/3 height (from the bottom of the bay window 2/3 to the top of the bay window) standard grey (lets some light through but not shear) curtain that fits almost flush with the wall & 2 & 1/2" beyond the sides and is 1" longer than the bay window (this leaves about a 5" gap between the curtain & the bay window [she said so that I could walk around with no shirt on] {I am always warmer than she is, so, around the house, when she is dressed normally, I am in slippers, shorts & no shirt or a light T-Shirt} but could not be seen by people across the street during the day, yet some daylight could come in).
She also had me hang a full length shear curtain (just in front of and starting from 6" above the top of the bay window to the floor. This curtains folds back edges just touch the other curtains folds front edges.
In addition, she had me hang a third full length curtain that has alternating 14" normal & shear sections (both a bit thicker weight that a normal floor length curtain has) that run the width of the curtain 3" in front of that curtain.
The next time I turned the stereo on, I realized that the higher frequency reflections had been mitigated some & that I could adjust their effect by adjusting the curtains.
I hope that this information can help you with your problem in some fashion..
EJ3

 

[Abdo]

I’ve got my Wiim Ultra working as a streaming transport only using Roon. I use the USB output to SMSL M500 MKIII which delivers balanced to a Topping Pre90 and then out to my pair of HypeX Nilai500DIY mono blocks. All of which I’ve bought thanks to Amir’s reviews of each. It sounds superb. The small screen is a helpful display of album art and the eArc HDMI is a great input for the TV which also gives me volume control with the remote. For the price, and with these features, it’s great value. I’ve not used the native DAC and using the MM phono input via my existing chain just sounds very weird. Thanks for the review.

Good morning, the question I'm always asking but without an answer.
I bought the Wiim Ultra and I love the work it does, so much so that I had a CXN V2 and put the Wiim Ultra as the main one. My question is whether it's worth having a DAC between the Wiim Ultra and my MA 6800 (Mcintosh)?
I saw the notes of the SMSL M500 MKIII. And then I ask, will I have a gain in quality with it compared to what I'm using today?

 

[Miguelón]

I rarely am sitting in the "sweet" spot and am almost always moving around.
In my living room there (where the stereo is) is a bay window (about triple the size of a normal window on the right (as you are facing the stereo), slightly longer side wall, naturally causing some side reflections. I do not have any form of DSP (yet) but have done something that is A. adjustable B. the adjustments affect the reflections form the bay window C. this was accidentally discovered through my wife's, natural design inclinations.
She had me hang a 2/3 height (from the bottom of the bay window 2/3 to the top of the bay window) standard grey (lets some light through but not shear) curtain that fits almost flush with the wall & 2 & 1/2" beyond the sides and is 1" longer than the bay window (this leaves about a 5" gap between the curtain & the bay window [she said so that I could walk around with no shirt on] {I am always warmer than she is, so, around the house, when she is dressed normally, I am in slippers, shorts & no shirt or a light T-Shirt} but could not be seen by people across the street during the day, yet some daylight could come in).
She also had me hang a full length shear curtain (just in front of and starting from 6" above the top of the bay window to the floor. This curtains folds back edges just touch the other curtains folds front edges.
In addition, she had me hang a third full length curtain that has alternating 14" normal & shear sections (both a bit thicker weight that a normal floor length curtain has) that run the width of the curtain 3" in front of that curtain.
The next time I turned the stereo on, I realized that the higher frequency reflections had been mitigated some & that I could adjust their effect by adjusting the curtains.
I hope that this information can help you with your problem in some fashion..
EJ3

I knew the posibility of using curtains to avoid windows reflections, in fact was advised to do it.

But since I suffer from rhinitis I should avoid carpets and curtains, probably this is the reason of too many reflections on high region of the spectrum in my living room.

It doesn’t match exactly the “moderate reflective room” that is on the studies of acousitcs.

Before buying my WiiM and having no way to EQ, I always had fatiguing sensation from speakers, no matter the brand (I tried a lot of them). Finally the explanation came from some spikes on the mid-high and treble regions.

Now I’m sure that EQ improves a lot of things, also the bass is wonderful even if my 5 inches monitors are not very good on this side. The little I feel from a good bass guitar is wellcome

 

[Overseas]

Good morning, the question I'm always asking but without an answer.
I bought the Wiim Ultra and I love the work it does, so much so that I had a CXN V2 and put the Wiim Ultra as the main one. My question is whether it's worth having a DAC between the Wiim Ultra and my MA 6800 (Mcintosh)?
I saw the notes of the SMSL M500 MKIII. And then I ask, will I have a gain in quality with it compared to what I'm using today?

Have a look at the first post.

 

[Romario]

This is a massive simplification, at best.

Correction over the entire frequency range is usually something between difficult to do and pointless.

Using the RC of the Ultra is invented for us simpletons. What would your recommendation be for the frequency window, max gain and max Q be? And while your on it the delay time of the main speakers in the subwoofer section, if I may ask?

 

[Brian Hall]

Good morning, the question I'm always asking but without an answer.
I bought the Wiim Ultra and I love the work it does, so much so that I had a CXN V2 and put the Wiim Ultra as the main one. My question is whether it's worth having a DAC between the Wiim Ultra and my MA 6800 (Mcintosh)?
I saw the notes of the SMSL M500 MKIII. And then I ask, will I have a gain in quality with it compared to what I'm using today?

Any difference would be inaudible. If the Wiim Ultra has all the inputs you need, stay with the Wiim dac. If you need more inputs, it is possible to add a dac before the Wiim. Take the audio out from the other dac and plug into the Wiim's analog in.

 

[holbob]

Using the RC of the Ultra is invented for us simpletons. What would your recommendation be for the frequency window, max gain and max Q be? And while your on it the delay time of the main speakers in the subwoofer section, if I may ask?

Mine would be :-

400hz
0db gain
Q 5

 

[Miguelón]

Mine would be :-

400hz
0db gain
Q 5

“No gain, no pain” may be the new training mantra on audiophile…

 

[Sokel]

Hummm, I was not advising to correct the whole range but I don’t find any reason to limit only to 300 Hz.

If you’re going to stay on a sweet spot all time, reflecions are important. Of course if you move constantly (as I often do when listening to ambient music), just some room modes… I even let one single speaker on, if I’m not listening in front of speakers.

I agree, is a lot simplistic, but you can agree that if some dip or spike is bothering, whatever the frequency, one can freely modify it and verify the result. By mic and by ear

Other than opinions it's best to follow facts and experts.
Below is the right way along with the explanations,I quote:

OK. I thought about opening a rat's nest by doing this, because it is a simplification of what sometimes has to be done. Some of the points have been made earlier in this forum thread and elsewhere, but it might be useful to bring the key factors in the process to one place. The marketing of room EQ algorithms often presents the impression that all combinations of loudspeakers and rooms can be "fixed", "calibrated" or the like, by means of measurements, math and equalization. In reality, much of the "math" does not include the exceptionally complex, non-linear and occasionally capricious psychoacoustics of human listeners. A critical missing element is that humans adapt to circumstances, bringing our perceptions into acceptable territory. Loudspeakers reproduce sounds. Musicians produce sounds. Both do it in rooms. We don't feel the need to "equalize" - even if we could - the instruments and voices of live music. Two ears and a brain separate the sources from the venue, and adapt to aspects of what the environment contributes to the overall performance. The venues vary, and some are even not ideal, but we manage to appreciate the excellence of fine instruments and voices in most of them.

The special problem with sound reproducing systems is that flaws get superimposed on everything that is played through them. These monotonous colorations can sometimes be beyond the ability of humans to adapt, and they need to be identified and attenuated.

Therefore, the "right way" begins with choosing well designed, timbrally neutral, loudspeakers. If the loudspeakers exhibit audible resonances and/or frequency-dependent directivity issues, it is not likely that measurements in a room will reveal such problems and that equalization is capable of compensating for them. It is often the case that the solution is better loudspeakers. Fortunately these can be identified with good reliability from competently made anechoic measurements presented in a "spinorama" format, following the industry standard. Amir, on this site, makes such measurements and others can be found at www.spinorama.org.

This done, set them up in your room and make a steady-state frequency response measurement at the prime listening position - the stereo seat. We will be paying close attention to the frequencies below about 400-500 Hz, where adjacent boundary effects and room resonances are active. Because much of the bass in recordings is mono (all of it in LPs) drive both loudspeakers simultaneously to evaluate what is happening at low frequencies. Measure them individually to find out what is happening at frequencies above about 400 Hz. If you are using bass management and one or more subwoofers the process is the same, and of course all subs should be running simultaneously. Why? Because multiple sound sources couple energy to room resonances differently when they operate in unison.

You can repeat this at different seats to see how much seat-to-seat variation there is - often quite a lot. Averaging several of these curves is a common practice, making the curves look much smoother, but hiding some awkward realities at low frequencies. Superimposing the curves on one graph is a more useful display of what is happening in your setup. You can then choose which humps/peaks to attenuate, depending on which seats are affected. Remember, at this stage we are looking only at bass frequencies. Narrow dips, however deep, should be ignored. Broad dips can be filled in, but keep the EQ boosts below about 6 dB. Aim for a smoothish curve that is tilted slightly upward at lower frequencies.

The benefits of this exercise will apply only to the seat or seats exhibiting similar shaped curves. That is why multiple-sub methods have been developed aimed at reducing seat-to-seat variations so that one equalization can deliver improved bass to several listeners. These are discussed in detail in Chapter 8 in the 3rd edition of my book.

Above about 400-500 Hz the "early reflections" curve in the spinorama should be similar to what you have measured. If you have well designed loudspeakers the room curve might have some smallish ripples caused by acoustical interference between and among the direct and reflected sounds - these are not problems to two ears and a brain and equalization is the wrong method of addressing them if they were - that is an acoustics issue. Spatial averaging over several microphone locations tends to smooth the room curve at middle and high frequencies, thereby reducing the likelihood that an auto-EQ algorithm (or a person) might try to "fix" something that can't be fixed, or that doesn't need to be fixed. Remember, any EQ applied to a room curve modifies the direct sound, and it the the direct sound that is a key factor in determining sound quality. If you began with loudspeakers designed to have the desirable smooth and flat on-axis/listening window response, they will be degraded.

Finally, pay attention to the overall shape of the room curve. Usually, at least for conventional forward-firing loudspeakers, the room curve will tilt gently downward. If the shape deviates substantially from the early-reflections spinorama curve then one can suspect something is amiss in the acoustical treatment of the room. If listening confirms a problem, then one is free to try modifying the shape of the spectrum with broadband, low-Q, tone-control kinds of equalization. When listening to recordings we get into the circle-of confusion dilemma, where it is difficult to know where the problem lies: the playback system or the recording.

Don't worry about little ripples. When I see exceptionally smooth high-resolution room curves I strongly suspect that something wrong has been done. The measurement microphone is no substitute for two ears and a human brain. Happy landings!

What is your favorite house curve

OK. Next question for you folks. As far as I can tell there is no spinorama for the Focal Aria 926's, which happen to be my main speakers. However, Amir did do a spinorama for the Aria 906 standmount speakers. They use the same tweeter and mid driver as the 926, but lack the two woofers as they...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Romario]

Mine would be :-

400hz
0db gain
Q 5

So, no window, no gain, no fun

 

[Miguelón]

Other than opinions it's best to follow facts and experts.
Below is the right way along with the explanations,I quote:

What is your favorite house curve

OK. Next question for you folks. As far as I can tell there is no spinorama for the Focal Aria 926's, which happen to be my main speakers. However, Amir did do a spinorama for the Aria 906 standmount speakers. They use the same tweeter and mid driver as the 926, but lack the two woofers as they...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I will read more carefully this night, by superficial reading it seems as was mentioned above by Holbob that things are not as simple I thought…

I changed from a totally position of “don’t touch my fu***ing signal” to “I will equalize till the sound shows a perfect smooth curve”.

Surely I will find the right midpoint as time progresses, I always learn as a Roomba in a living room: hitting the wall and changing cap…

 

[Nopiano]

Any difference would be inaudible. If the Wiim Ultra has all the inputs you need, stay with the Wiim dac. If you need more inputs, it is possible to add a dac before the Wiim. Take the audio out from the other dac and plug into the Wiim's analog in.

Wouldn’t the more typical use be to treat the Wiim as a source and thence to a preamp to accommodate any extra sources? Doubling up on DACs can only be deleterious, surely?

 

[Miguelón]

Wouldn’t the more typical use be to treat the Wiim as a source and thence to a preamp to accommodate any extra sources? Doubling up on DACs can only be deleterious, surely?

This is how many people use them, WiiM => usb/ spdif => DAC

I never thought about DAC => analogue WiiM input => preamp?

I think preamp mode in WiiM digitalize the input, am I wrong?

 

[Abdo]

This is how many people use them, WiiM => usb/ spdif => DAC

I never thought about DAC => analogue WiiM input => preamp?

I think preamp mode in WiiM digitalize the input, am I wrong?

This is always my question and I still have many doubts, why have the Wiim Ultra and not use it as a DAC ... ??
I use the Wiim Ultra for MC 6800 and that's it, nothing else gets in the way ... it works perfectly.
My doubt always persists if a DAC would sound better, but I have already received help from friends here saying that I would not be able to gain hearing.

 

[sapphari]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

 

[Abdo]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

This is something that is right, I got to test a HEGEL H590 here, I simply hated its sound and absolute lack of controls. Something that you can adjust on the Wiim.

 

[jcarys]

From Amir's original review - "The WiiM Ultra easily makes way for itself among our very competent DACs, obviating the need to use an external one". What more needs to be said (or heard), it has 115db SINAD out!

 

[GPx86]

What's the max bitrate capability of the USB output? I am having trouble confirming this. I'm just looking for a high quality device to run Roon --> USB output --> DAC.