WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Overseas]

Good morning, the question I'm always asking but without an answer.
I bought the Wiim Ultra and I love the work it does, so much so that I had a CXN V2 and put the Wiim Ultra as the main one. My question is whether it's worth having a DAC between the Wiim Ultra and my MA 6800 (Mcintosh)?
I saw the notes of the SMSL M500 MKIII. And then I ask, will I have a gain in quality with it compared to what I'm using today?

Have a look at the first post.

 

[Romario]

This is a massive simplification, at best.

Correction over the entire frequency range is usually something between difficult to do and pointless.

Using the RC of the Ultra is invented for us simpletons. What would your recommendation be for the frequency window, max gain and max Q be? And while your on it the delay time of the main speakers in the subwoofer section, if I may ask?

 

[Brian Hall]

Good morning, the question I'm always asking but without an answer.
I bought the Wiim Ultra and I love the work it does, so much so that I had a CXN V2 and put the Wiim Ultra as the main one. My question is whether it's worth having a DAC between the Wiim Ultra and my MA 6800 (Mcintosh)?
I saw the notes of the SMSL M500 MKIII. And then I ask, will I have a gain in quality with it compared to what I'm using today?

Any difference would be inaudible. If the Wiim Ultra has all the inputs you need, stay with the Wiim dac. If you need more inputs, it is possible to add a dac before the Wiim. Take the audio out from the other dac and plug into the Wiim's analog in.

 

[holbob]

Using the RC of the Ultra is invented for us simpletons. What would your recommendation be for the frequency window, max gain and max Q be? And while your on it the delay time of the main speakers in the subwoofer section, if I may ask?

Mine would be :-

400hz
0db gain
Q 5

 

[Miguelón]

Mine would be :-

400hz
0db gain
Q 5

“No gain, no pain” may be the new training mantra on audiophile…

 

[Sokel]

Hummm, I was not advising to correct the whole range but I don’t find any reason to limit only to 300 Hz.

If you’re going to stay on a sweet spot all time, reflecions are important. Of course if you move constantly (as I often do when listening to ambient music), just some room modes… I even let one single speaker on, if I’m not listening in front of speakers.

I agree, is a lot simplistic, but you can agree that if some dip or spike is bothering, whatever the frequency, one can freely modify it and verify the result. By mic and by ear

Other than opinions it's best to follow facts and experts.
Below is the right way along with the explanations,I quote:

OK. I thought about opening a rat's nest by doing this, because it is a simplification of what sometimes has to be done. Some of the points have been made earlier in this forum thread and elsewhere, but it might be useful to bring the key factors in the process to one place. The marketing of room EQ algorithms often presents the impression that all combinations of loudspeakers and rooms can be "fixed", "calibrated" or the like, by means of measurements, math and equalization. In reality, much of the "math" does not include the exceptionally complex, non-linear and occasionally capricious psychoacoustics of human listeners. A critical missing element is that humans adapt to circumstances, bringing our perceptions into acceptable territory. Loudspeakers reproduce sounds. Musicians produce sounds. Both do it in rooms. We don't feel the need to "equalize" - even if we could - the instruments and voices of live music. Two ears and a brain separate the sources from the venue, and adapt to aspects of what the environment contributes to the overall performance. The venues vary, and some are even not ideal, but we manage to appreciate the excellence of fine instruments and voices in most of them.

The special problem with sound reproducing systems is that flaws get superimposed on everything that is played through them. These monotonous colorations can sometimes be beyond the ability of humans to adapt, and they need to be identified and attenuated.

Therefore, the "right way" begins with choosing well designed, timbrally neutral, loudspeakers. If the loudspeakers exhibit audible resonances and/or frequency-dependent directivity issues, it is not likely that measurements in a room will reveal such problems and that equalization is capable of compensating for them. It is often the case that the solution is better loudspeakers. Fortunately these can be identified with good reliability from competently made anechoic measurements presented in a "spinorama" format, following the industry standard. Amir, on this site, makes such measurements and others can be found at www.spinorama.org.

This done, set them up in your room and make a steady-state frequency response measurement at the prime listening position - the stereo seat. We will be paying close attention to the frequencies below about 400-500 Hz, where adjacent boundary effects and room resonances are active. Because much of the bass in recordings is mono (all of it in LPs) drive both loudspeakers simultaneously to evaluate what is happening at low frequencies. Measure them individually to find out what is happening at frequencies above about 400 Hz. If you are using bass management and one or more subwoofers the process is the same, and of course all subs should be running simultaneously. Why? Because multiple sound sources couple energy to room resonances differently when they operate in unison.

You can repeat this at different seats to see how much seat-to-seat variation there is - often quite a lot. Averaging several of these curves is a common practice, making the curves look much smoother, but hiding some awkward realities at low frequencies. Superimposing the curves on one graph is a more useful display of what is happening in your setup. You can then choose which humps/peaks to attenuate, depending on which seats are affected. Remember, at this stage we are looking only at bass frequencies. Narrow dips, however deep, should be ignored. Broad dips can be filled in, but keep the EQ boosts below about 6 dB. Aim for a smoothish curve that is tilted slightly upward at lower frequencies.

The benefits of this exercise will apply only to the seat or seats exhibiting similar shaped curves. That is why multiple-sub methods have been developed aimed at reducing seat-to-seat variations so that one equalization can deliver improved bass to several listeners. These are discussed in detail in Chapter 8 in the 3rd edition of my book.

Above about 400-500 Hz the "early reflections" curve in the spinorama should be similar to what you have measured. If you have well designed loudspeakers the room curve might have some smallish ripples caused by acoustical interference between and among the direct and reflected sounds - these are not problems to two ears and a brain and equalization is the wrong method of addressing them if they were - that is an acoustics issue. Spatial averaging over several microphone locations tends to smooth the room curve at middle and high frequencies, thereby reducing the likelihood that an auto-EQ algorithm (or a person) might try to "fix" something that can't be fixed, or that doesn't need to be fixed. Remember, any EQ applied to a room curve modifies the direct sound, and it the the direct sound that is a key factor in determining sound quality. If you began with loudspeakers designed to have the desirable smooth and flat on-axis/listening window response, they will be degraded.

Finally, pay attention to the overall shape of the room curve. Usually, at least for conventional forward-firing loudspeakers, the room curve will tilt gently downward. If the shape deviates substantially from the early-reflections spinorama curve then one can suspect something is amiss in the acoustical treatment of the room. If listening confirms a problem, then one is free to try modifying the shape of the spectrum with broadband, low-Q, tone-control kinds of equalization. When listening to recordings we get into the circle-of confusion dilemma, where it is difficult to know where the problem lies: the playback system or the recording.

Don't worry about little ripples. When I see exceptionally smooth high-resolution room curves I strongly suspect that something wrong has been done. The measurement microphone is no substitute for two ears and a human brain. Happy landings!

What is your favorite house curve

OK. Next question for you folks. As far as I can tell there is no spinorama for the Focal Aria 926's, which happen to be my main speakers. However, Amir did do a spinorama for the Aria 906 standmount speakers. They use the same tweeter and mid driver as the 926, but lack the two woofers as they...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Romario]

Mine would be :-

400hz
0db gain
Q 5

So, no window, no gain, no fun

 

[Miguelón]

Other than opinions it's best to follow facts and experts.
Below is the right way along with the explanations,I quote:

What is your favorite house curve

OK. Next question for you folks. As far as I can tell there is no spinorama for the Focal Aria 926's, which happen to be my main speakers. However, Amir did do a spinorama for the Aria 906 standmount speakers. They use the same tweeter and mid driver as the 926, but lack the two woofers as they...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I will read more carefully this night, by superficial reading it seems as was mentioned above by Holbob that things are not as simple I thought…

I changed from a totally position of “don’t touch my fu***ing signal” to “I will equalize till the sound shows a perfect smooth curve”.

Surely I will find the right midpoint as time progresses, I always learn as a Roomba in a living room: hitting the wall and changing cap…

 

[Nopiano]

Any difference would be inaudible. If the Wiim Ultra has all the inputs you need, stay with the Wiim dac. If you need more inputs, it is possible to add a dac before the Wiim. Take the audio out from the other dac and plug into the Wiim's analog in.

Wouldn’t the more typical use be to treat the Wiim as a source and thence to a preamp to accommodate any extra sources? Doubling up on DACs can only be deleterious, surely?

 

[Miguelón]

Wouldn’t the more typical use be to treat the Wiim as a source and thence to a preamp to accommodate any extra sources? Doubling up on DACs can only be deleterious, surely?

This is how many people use them, WiiM => usb/ spdif => DAC

I never thought about DAC => analogue WiiM input => preamp?

I think preamp mode in WiiM digitalize the input, am I wrong?

 

[Abdo]

This is how many people use them, WiiM => usb/ spdif => DAC

I never thought about DAC => analogue WiiM input => preamp?

I think preamp mode in WiiM digitalize the input, am I wrong?

This is always my question and I still have many doubts, why have the Wiim Ultra and not use it as a DAC ... ??
I use the Wiim Ultra for MC 6800 and that's it, nothing else gets in the way ... it works perfectly.
My doubt always persists if a DAC would sound better, but I have already received help from friends here saying that I would not be able to gain hearing.

 

[sapphari]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

 

[Abdo]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

This is something that is right, I got to test a HEGEL H590 here, I simply hated its sound and absolute lack of controls. Something that you can adjust on the Wiim.

 

[jcarys]

From Amir's original review - "The WiiM Ultra easily makes way for itself among our very competent DACs, obviating the need to use an external one". What more needs to be said (or heard), it has 115db SINAD out!

 

[GPx86]

What's the max bitrate capability of the USB output? I am having trouble confirming this. I'm just looking for a high quality device to run Roon --> USB output --> DAC.

 

[Abdo]

What's the max bitrate capability of the USB output? I am having trouble confirming this. I'm just looking for a high quality device to run Roon --> USB output --> DAC.

I use the Wiim Ultra running Room and use the RCA output from the Wiim directly to my MA6800 (analog)

 

[D700]

@amirm a related topic to question above on USB output....is there a metric in your review that illustrates quality of the volume control in the Ultra? Is there a way to measure that or extrapolate?

I'd like to know if the DSP in the Ultra is of sufficient quality to provide max headroom via coax/digital output to a high quality DAC? I'm considering a Wiim Ultra>Benchmark DAC3 B>AHB2 stack. I am interested in subwoofer management and Room correction; the Ultra seems to be punching well above its weight class feature-wise.

High quality dac/amplification with inexpensive, feature rich, no compromise streamer appeals to me (Where art thou MySqueezebox?)

Above question informed by: John Siau on Volume Control Technologies

 

[Miguelón]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

You can correct on the WiiM and send the digital file to the DAC via usb: why doing it reversal?

 

[Miguelón]

This is always my question and I still have many doubts, why have the Wiim Ultra and not use it as a DAC ... ??
I use the Wiim Ultra for MC 6800 and that's it, nothing else gets in the way ... it works perfectly.
My doubt always persists if a DAC would sound better, but I have already received help from friends here saying that I would not be able to gain hearing.

There’s no reason to use an external DAC with the WiiM, unless you have very long cables and need balanced outputs.

WiiM improves DAC section with respect to Pro Plus for using as an all-in-one unit.

 

[Brian Hall]

Wouldn’t the more typical use be to treat the Wiim as a source and thence to a preamp to accommodate any extra sources? Doubling up on DACs can only be deleterious, surely?

The Wiim Ultra does not provide a USB C or Coax input. I hooked up a Schiit Modi+ that I had laying around for USB C and Coax inputs and plugged the RCA outs into the Wiim's analog inputs. It works great.