Why none of us audiophiles still cannot completely get rid of the "hum" in this day and age?

[OCA]

I'd like to bring to all the audiophiles attention this problem. No matter how expensive and carefully set up your system is, you know the hum is always there given enough volume and no source active. Generally, it's a lot worse than that and we just agree to live with it. We are all such perfectionists, we can spend thousands of dollars for a Dac that can process 768kHz and replace our 384kHz Dac and yet we accept to hear the hum. I learned how electricity is really delivered to our homes from a video of Amir at the age of 50 (and I have an engineering degree) and what is grounding and why it causes the "hum" but even he didn't offer a solution to get rid of it. Is there no solution? If there's, why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

I don't presume any techincal knowledge on the matter so I might be all wrong but I hear the hum. I lived in 3 different continents in the last 30 years and used many different brands of gear. The hum was always there to a varying degree (from only audible if you press your ear to tweeter to always there unless there's music playing supressing it). Let's rebel and force electiricity companies or electronics companies or whoever is causing this to stop it.

 

[SIY]

FWIW, I can press my ear to my speakers and still no hum.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

No hum (or hiss or any noise) from my speakers (at idle) whatsoever in neither of my systems. Not saying that with “bad” equipment there isn’t, but your generalization just doesn’t hold up.

 

[Beave]

I'd like to bring to all the audiophiles attention this problem. No matter how expensive and carefully set up your system is, you know the hum is always there given enough volume and no source active. Generally, it's a lot worse than that and we just agree to live with it. We are all such perfectionists, we can spend thousands of dollars for a Dac that can process 768kHz and replace our 384kHz Dac and yet we accept to hear the hum. I learned how electricity is really delivered to our homes from a video of Amir at the age of 50 (and I have an engineering degree) and what is grounding and why it causes the "hum" but even he didn't offer a solution to get rid of it. Is there no solution? If there's, why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

I don't presume any techincal knowledge on the matter so I might be all wrong but I hear the hum. I lived in 3 different continents in the last 30 years and used many different brands of gear. The hum was always there to a varying degree (from only audible if you press your ear to tweeter to always there unless there's music playing supressing it). Let's rebel and force electiricity companies or electronics companies or whoever is causing this to stop it.

You hear 50/60Hz hum from your tweeters?

 

[JP]

Ear to speaker I can’t even tell the system is on.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Let's rebel and force electiricity companies or electronics companies or whoever is causing this to stop it.

Good idea. I’ve just petitioned my electricity company to remove the hum from their mains supply.

 

[Beave]

Good idea. I’ve just petitioned my electricity company to remove the hum from their mains supply.

LOL, your bill is gonna be much lower now!

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't have any "audiophile" or professional equipment and I don't hear any hum.

In the analog days when I was building my own phono preamps I was battling hum... But without high-gain phono preamps, no issues at all.

Balanced connections will prevent hum due to ground loops and virtually all pro equipment is balanced but it's rare in home audio.

Power supply hum is less of a problem with switching power supplies because they work at high frequencies (usually above the audio range) and high frequencies are easier to filter. But filtering 50/60Hz isn't rocket science either.

There is ALWAYS SOME noise.... Hum, hiss, or whine, but it's not necessarily audible. Even a resistor generates thermal noise (white noise)

 

[tmtomh]

I've fought my own battles with various forms of system noise, mainly ground-loop induced hum (and hiss, which surprised me), and mechanical hum from large transformers.

I agree that balanced connections and other techniques can largely solve the issues, and my current setup has no hum. But I do appreciate one of the points the OP makes: given the right (or wrong) conditions, the volume level of hum and hiss from a system can far exceed the noise level of even mediocre-measuring equipment, let alone excellent equipment. Whether it's hiss from active speakers, or noise caused by gain-staging issues, or hiss from ground loops (ground loops can increase hiss, not just cause hum), we've all heard it, even if our own system doesn't have any of those problems.

 

[Cote Dazur]

What Hum?

 

[Gringoaudio1]

WT absolute F?!

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Speaking as an old audio guy (66,) wasn't fiber optics technology supposed to have liberated us all from ground loops by now?

Hum definitely still plagues us. Even though my system is hum-free, it didn't get there without some effort, and I still hear it in video soundtracks from time to time. Audibly transparent Bluetooth would work. In the meantime, isolate your cable TV/internet/telecom drop with a transformer. It can work wonders.

 

[Chrispy]

Can't say hum has been a big problem for me over the years.

 

[earlevel]

I'd like to bring to all the audiophiles attention this problem. No matter how expensive and carefully set up your system is, you know the hum is always there given enough volume and no source active. Generally, it's a lot worse than that and we just agree to live with it. We are all such perfectionists, we can spend thousands of dollars for a Dac that can process 768kHz and replace our 384kHz Dac and yet we accept to hear the hum. I learned how electricity is really delivered to our homes from a video of Amir at the age of 50 (and I have an engineering degree) and what is grounding and why it causes the "hum" but even he didn't offer a solution to get rid of it. Is there no solution? If there's, why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

I don't presume any techincal knowledge on the matter so I might be all wrong but I hear the hum. I lived in 3 different continents in the last 30 years and used many different brands of gear. The hum was always there to a varying degree (from only audible if you press your ear to tweeter to always there unless there's music playing supressing it). Let's rebel and force electiricity companies or electronics companies or whoever is causing this to stop it.

The hum isn't coming from the electricity companies—they are delivering 60 Hz (in US) as expected.

While it can come from the electronics companies, it's probably isn't, in a competent piece of gear.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's probably coming from less than optimal wiring in your house, and hitching a ride on your interconnects.

I had it 40 years ago when I bought this house, but I rewired this external building that became my office/studio, and I haven't had it since. To be fair, I don't have it in the ~65 year old wiring of the main house, either, but extending the wiring from the main panel to this backyard room, with questionable wiring, was too much to ask. Wiring with heavier gauge to an added sub panel, and using adequate wiring through steel conduit to the outlets cure all ills I had before.

That was a particularly bad case to start with, so just doing things right was a huge improvement. There are much more serious extremely of wiring and grounding and transformer isolation that serious studio might want. But, there are also some simple things, like feeding key components from the same outlet to minimize them having grounds at different potentials. And in some cases you can eliminate electrical connections, such as with optical interconnects.

But mainly, I wanted to point out that you're looking in the wrong direction if your concern is the electricity provider, or even blaming all audio products. Poor audio products may not adequately isolate the power supply, but even the best will participate in hum that's due to poor wiring and interconnects.

 

[diddley]

I think the OP has left building..

 

[pma]

I'd like to bring to all the audiophiles attention this problem. No matter how expensive and carefully set up your system is, you know the hum is always there given enough volume and no source active. Generally, it's a lot worse than that and we just agree to live with it. We are all such perfectionists, we can spend thousands of dollars for a Dac that can process 768kHz and replace our 384kHz Dac and yet we accept to hear the hum. I learned how electricity is really delivered to our homes from a video of Amir at the age of 50 (and I have an engineering degree) and what is grounding and why it causes the "hum" but even he didn't offer a solution to get rid of it. Is there no solution? If there's, why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

I don't presume any techincal knowledge on the matter so I might be all wrong but I hear the hum. I lived in 3 different continents in the last 30 years and used many different brands of gear. The hum was always there to a varying degree (from only audible if you press your ear to tweeter to always there unless there's music playing supressing it). Let's rebel and force electiricity companies or electronics companies or whoever is causing this to stop it.

The answer is not simple, because the existence, non-existence of audible hum depends not only on individual component design, but also on topology of the complete system, interconnects, grounding, safety class of instruments, single ended or balanced signal links. Simply, if you have more than one class I component in the system, you have potential risk of hum, especially in case of single ended links. You may search in my threads and posts, mains related S/N and HF related interference and intermodulation is my main topic. Use optical fibre for digital and avoid multiple class I components, this is an universal and working advice. Tests of individual isolated components under clinical ideal conditions would not tell you what you need to know.

 

[Holmz]

I think the OP has left building..

It was a well written post when it has a subtle humour.
I am giving @Serkan a top score.

But I do find sometime I can see the 50 Hz on a scope, and play with cables and get it lower, but still not hear it.

 

[pma]

FWIW, I can press my ear to my speakers and still no hum.

This (and similar ones) is a nice anecdotal story. Why don’t you rather post a measurement (properly scaled, or in dBV) of noise spectrum at the power amplifier output of your completely connected audio system, in the configuration as you listen to it?

 

[pma]

It was a well written post when it has a subtle humour.
I am giving @Serkan a top score.

But I do find sometime I can see the 50 Hz on a scope, and play with cables and get it lower, but still not hear it.

If you see something with the scope, you will see much more in the spectrum with properly connected audio analyzer. If you connect the regular class I scope to the amplifier output, your measurement is invalid as you create a ground loop path to the mains via scope ground.

 

[Jimster480]

None of my gear has any hum...