JP
Major Contributor
A is track 2. I used loudness normalization to -17 LUFS.Is a track 1 and b track 2?
A is track 2. I used loudness normalization to -17 LUFS.Is a track 1 and b track 2?
Yeah, in the end the normalization pulled down the digital stream and pushed up the vinyl recording. the main reason for this is that my digital interface is balanced while my phono stage is single ended, so their is a minimum 6dB drop on the vinyl just from that. The other thing I'm wondering about is that the run from the phono stage to my interface is a good 10 feet. Is that enough to effect transients?
I mean mine were 12ft long and cost $9. They don't list any of the electrical specs! I'm just wondering if their might be a way to re-sell them as high-end filters?Makes sense. They sounded fine though. I don't know about the transient question. As if a vinyl thread isn't enough, now we are thinking about cables.
There is already a thread about the MoFi scandal hereThere is an interesting article indirectly dealing with the analog vs digital debate in the Washington Post (available here without the WP paywall). Esposito, an individual owning a record shop in Phoenix, stated on his youtube video, that according to “pretty reliable sources” the highly respected LP manufacturer MoFi (Mobile Fidelity) had been using digital files in its production chain. M. Fremer, the apparent golden eared hero of LP fans, attempted to defend Mo-Fi. In his infinite wisdom, he attacked Esposito for spreading rumors and stated that his source informed him Esposito was wrong. He tweeted, “Will speculative click bait YouTube videos claiming otherwise be taken down after reading this?”. To address the controversy, MoFi invited Esposito to their factory, only to later confirm they did in fact use digital files for production of many of their LPs. Many of MoFi's exposed records were in Fremer's list of best-sounding analog albums. Interestingly, many purchasers are all offended and want their money back.
So, before the truth was exposed, the LPs were worth substantially more money than the digital counterparts. The LPs had the magical sound that only fully analog productions can provide...that is, until it was not true. Now many purchasers want their money back (understandably, since they believed they were buying different product); however, were the LPs not some of the best-sounding productions out there? How long before the golden eared audiophiles start identifying aspects of the LPs that clearly indicate they are not fully analog?
How long before the golden eared audiophiles start identifying aspects of the LPs that clearly indicate they are not fully analog?
Yeah, I know. It sort of dawned on me while I was writing, but I was too lazy to correct myself.
There is an interesting article indirectly dealing with the analog vs digital debate in the Washington Post (available here without the WP paywall). Esposito, an individual owning a record shop in Phoenix, stated on his youtube video, that according to “pretty reliable sources” the highly respected LP manufacturer MoFi (Mobile Fidelity) had been using digital files in its production chain. M. Fremer, the apparent golden eared hero of LP fans, attempted to defend Mo-Fi. In his infinite wisdom, he attacked Esposito for spreading rumors and stated that his source informed him Esposito was wrong. He tweeted, “Will speculative click bait YouTube videos claiming otherwise be taken down after reading this?”. To address the controversy, MoFi invited Esposito to their factory, only to later confirm they did in fact use digital files for production of many of their LPs. Many of MoFi's exposed records were in Fremer's list of best-sounding analog albums. Interestingly, many purchasers are all offended and want their money back.
So, before the truth was exposed, the LPs were worth substantially more money than the digital counterparts. The LPs had the magical sound that only fully analog productions can provide...that is, until it was not true. Now many purchasers want their money back (understandably, since they believed they were buying different product); however, were the LPs not some of the best-sounding productions out there? How long before the golden eared audiophiles start identifying aspects of the LPs that clearly indicate they are not fully analog?
I believe he wanted to show there was not a lot of difference between the two tracks, and that both were enjoyable. A couple of us heard a fatter rounder bottom end on the vinyl, backed up by the FR graph, that's chalked up to a euphonic distortion. I myself prefer this sound though I must admit I don't hear above 14kHz anymore and that I don't mind less channel separation and mono bass. The Smile was a good showing for the vinyl pressing, though that is not always the case. It's also almost certainly a digital recording being a recent release, but I don't mind that either. The conversion to analogue smooths things out in a natural manner.Hi, I may have missed @IPunchCholla’s point, distracted by the thread's noise machine. What exactly is the objective with these two tracks, or other future track-pairs? Is it:-
So, what exactly?
- To show that vinyl CAN sound very different? Everyone already knows that.
- To show a CHARACTERISTIC difference? That's going to take a wide-ranging study, so a few samples are bound to fail to show that. In fact they might mislead people into jumping to an unwarranted conclusion.
cheers
Come off it. ‘Smoothing things out’ can only be unnatural. Unless you are suggesting the digital master is inherently added-jaggy - maybe some staircase steps, or jittery edges? - to which I say, sensibly, come off it.smooths things out in a natural manner.
I’m pretty sure I stated exactly what my point was in the post I put the tracks on and it was neither of your 2 points. Those are not the only options.Hi, I may have missed @IPunchCholla’s point, distracted by the thread's noise machine. What exactly is the objective with these two tracks, or other future track-pairs? Is it:-
So, what exactly?
- To show that vinyl CAN sound very different? Everyone already knows that.
- To show a CHARACTERISTIC difference? That's going to take a wide-ranging study, so a few samples are bound to fail to show that. In fact they might mislead people into jumping to an unwarranted conclusion.
cheers
Come off it. ‘Smoothing things out’ can only be unnatural.
Same here, I have not listened yet on my main system, but trough headphones on my PC, beside the "cry me a river" sample, I did not hear any noise.For all the talk of dreaded "background noise" I'm not hearing any objectionable noise during the music on the vinyl file. Is anyone else?
Agree, makes me wonder what they used for TT and/or what state were their records in. On my system, once the music play, noise on LP is a non issue.I very rarely actually hear noise when the music is playing since it's masked by the music if it's there. Which is why the vinyl noise thing for me is overblown
Yup, also true for me -- no substitute for quality in the original. I'd rather hear a good recording of a good musical performance on a lower res MP3 or vinyl than an audiophile approved piece (often labelled jazz) on DSD.(But...again...for me the ultimate determinant of the sound quality I hear is the source, not as much the medium I'm playing).
Hi, I may have missed @IPunchCholla’s point, distracted by the thread's noise machine. What exactly is the objective with these two tracks, or other future track-pairs? Is it:-
So, what exactly?
- To show that vinyl CAN sound very different? Everyone already knows that.
- To show a CHARACTERISTIC difference? That's going to take a wide-ranging study, so a few samples are bound to fail to show that. In fact they might mislead people into jumping to an unwarranted conclusion.
I’m pretty sure I stated exactly what my point was in the post I put the tracks on and it was neither of your 2 points. Those are not the only options.
This isn't meant to be a definitive test, but rather just a casual comparison Apple lossless against a pretty humble TT and phono stage. I think the audio differences are pretty clear. I also think that the differences are pretty unimportant in the scheme of things.
This isn't meant to be a definitive test or anything, just a pretty humble TT vs what you can get streaming so people unfamiliar with vinyl can get a sense of how different it might be/the scale of the issue that has been ranted about for 100+ pages.