Why do DACs often use USB B for the USB input?

[Barrelhouse Solly]

The title says it all. My box of USB cables has mostly Micro Bs although C is catching up. I was under the impression that the cable wiring carries the same information in all cases. Does B have some advantage over the other types?

 

[Jimbob54]

The title says it all. My box of USB cables has mostly Micro Bs although C is catching up. I was under the impression that the cable wiring carries the same information in all cases. Does B have some advantage over the other types?

My guess...

At the point where DACs started to have USB input, B was chosen because:

1. Everyone had (and they were cheap to include with the DAC) a "printer" cable.
2. The port takes up less horizontal space than "letterbox" USB A
3. Presumably the internal connection part was a common and cheap option for same reasons
4. Dont see many USB A to USB A cables
5. There was no USB C (or it was new) back in the day
6. Micro USB is garbage
7. USB B is a nice secure connection and cant be accidentally plugged with any other connection by accident.

I would guess USB C will replace B on DAC designs in the fullness of time for the same reasons.

 

[bboris77]

My guess...

At the point where DACs started to have USB input, B was chosen because:

1. Everyone had (and they were cheap to include with the DAC) a "printer" cable.
2. The port takes up less horizontal space than "letterbox" USB A
3. Presumably the internal connection part was a common and cheap option for same reasons
4. Dont see many USB A to USB A cables
5. There was no USB C (or it was new) back in the day
6. Micro USB is garbage
7. USB B is a nice secure connection and cant be accidentally plugged with any other connection by accident.

I would guess USB C will replace B on DAC designs in the fullness of time for the same reasons.

The main reason why companies continue to use it is because it is thicc

It is kind of convenient not to have to change your cables, and there is that perception of quality that comes with a beefier-looking connector. However, both USB-A and USB-B are rated for "only" 1500 mating cycles, whereas USB-C is rated for 10000 cycles. Promiscuous connector for promiscuous times.

 

[somebodyelse]

Originally there were just A for the host end and B for the device end, back when it was simple. Using a Type A on a device is a violation of the spec, as are A to A cables.

 

[Jack Harrison]

My guess...

At the point where DACs started to have USB input, B was chosen because:

1. Everyone had (and they were cheap to include with the DAC) a "printer" cable.
2. The port takes up less horizontal space than "letterbox" USB A
3. Presumably the internal connection part was a common and cheap option for same reasons
4. Dont see many USB A to USB A cables
5. There was no USB C (or it was new) back in the day
6. Micro USB is garbage
7. USB B is a nice secure connection and cant be accidentally plugged with any other connection by accident.

I would guess USB C will replace B on DAC designs in the fullness of time for the same reasons.

Mini usb is rated for 5000 cycles and micro usb for 10,000. Unlike A and B rated for 1500. Out of interest is there some other reason why micro usb is garbage?

 

[MrSoul4470]

Mini-USB is a horrible, shaky connection (it's simply way too short) while USB-B seems more like it's made for professional use. It's like comparing a cheap cinch connector to XLR.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Micro USB in itself was not garbage, but then everyone and their dog used connectors that were made to be as cheap as possible, and you can guess how that went...

You very, very rarely see a bad Type B in the wild. Even if so, changing it is not a major hassle for a skilled technician. Thicc boi connector gets my vote.

 

[Jimbob54]

Mini usb is rated for 5000 cycles and micro usb for 10,000. Unlike A and B rated for 1500. Out of interest is there some other reason why micro usb is garbage?

Not robust for a fixed input, hard to insert properly the right way up if you can't reach /see well..

 

[Jimbob54]

Originally there were just A for the host end and B for the device end, back when it was simple. Using a Type A on a device is a violation of the spec, as are A to A cables.

Did not realise A to A was verboten. Explains a lot.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

When it started, USB was designed as a peripheral hub technology. Dumb-ish devices plugged into intelligent hosts (usually PCs, Macs, servers etc.). You couldn't plug a host to a host, nor a dumb-device to a dumb-device. To enforce this, the dumb-devices had one connector, and the hosts a different connector. Connectors with identical ends were forbidden.

Under this approach, even modern DACs are still "dumb-devices".

 

[somebodyelse]

And when they did start allowing bidirectional ports with USB-OTG there were still rules about cables and connectors to prevent you connecting things in ways that would break things.

 

[eas]

When it started, USB was designed as a peripheral hub technology. Dumb-ish devices plugged into intelligent hosts (usually PCs, Macs, servers etc.). You couldn't plug a host to a host, nor a dumb-device to a dumb-device. To enforce this, the dumb-devices had one connector, and the hosts a different connector. Connectors with identical ends were forbidden.

Under this approach, even modern DACs are still "dumb-devices".

USB is still primarily dumb devices plugged into intelligent hosts. The thing that has changed is that devices and hosts can hash out what pins are used for what, and what direction power is going to flow. There is also a way for USB devices to act as either a master or a slave, but this role switching isn't common and doesn't change in regular use.

The other reason most DACs seem to use Type-B is that they are low-volume items, so DAC makers are leveraging existing pcb and case designs as long as possible.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Just a simple question why would you need an USB c with desktop dac?

 

[Soria Moria]

Just a simple question why would you need an USB c with desktop dac?

It’s just nice to have things be the same connector so you can reuse cables more easily. I have lots of generic USB-A to A cables but if my USB-B cable broke I’d have to get a new one since that is a mostly esoteric connector (to me since I don’t own a printer).

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

It’s just nice to have things be the same connector so you can reuse cables more easily. I have lots of generic USB-A to A cables but if my USB-B cable broke I’d have to get a new one since that is a mostly esoteric connector (to me since I don’t own a printer).

So buy a new one, it's like 2 bucks?

Ps. When I see whining posts about USB c connectors I'm sure that it's a trendy youngster having a problem where there is no problem.

 

[ZolaIII]

So far this whose the most intelligent USB implementation in mobile (or any for that mother) DAC.

USB A has the host function trough software (Hiby Music) so you can use your regular phone cable (including iPhone) and not the OTG one tho it's limited to use with the mentioned software. It also can charge the Android phone when used that way but really not recommend if you don't use third part power supply like power bank as DAC embedded battery is relatively small. They also implemented direct power supply automatic switch to use source instead of embedded battery when battery is fully charged (and that's another thing we see rather rare unfortunately). Unfortunately only iDSD and iDSD Plus (and it's Hidizs branded iteration) where only device's ever made with such and their performance is rather nothing special today (but still enough with 100 dB SINAD or a little more). Writing this to show the clever engineering approach and rare effort made in the right direction.

 

[Killingbeans]

Does B have some advantage over the other types?

Even a half-blind grandma can plug it in without f¤¤king it up.

Mini usb is rated for 5000 cycles and micro usb for 10,000. Unlike A and B rated for 1500. Out of interest is there some other reason why micro usb is garbage?

Sure. But 99% of time I've had to replace a broken USB connector, it been micro USB. Not because it's been worn out, but because it's highly prone to damage from even mild mechanical abuse. It's just flimsy as hell in all other ways than the connection itself.

If I were to design a product with a USB input, I'd use B and never look back.

 

[delta76]

Just a simple question why would you need an USB c with desktop dac?

SMSL C200 has a USB-C input from computer and that's one of the nicest things about it.

 

[TonyJZX]

to me USB type B is an old printer type connection

i would accept this on big 1ru preamp or dac but obviously no one should be using it on a portable or small device

a type A to type B is a common cable... I dont have any on hand but I know I have a dozen lying around the place and could fish one out if needed

I seriously think the only time I've seen Type B is printers scanners and ext. hdds and cdrom and BIG stuff like that

realistically everything should move to type C now

 

[Music1969]

Yes nice big strong mechanical connection.

I much prefer type B desktop DAC for nice strong mechanical connection.

For portable, type C makes sense in 2023.