Why are there no female Audiophiles?

[Axo1989]

Did they laugh at your retort? I'd find that really funny, but then i can laugh at myself and whatever behaviour I may engage in as a male that might be stereotypical like that.

That was the slightly weird part. I was expecting a bit of hilarity but drew a literal blank really.

 

[Digby]

Once again the slippage from audio/tech-oriented forums in general to ASR in particular.

At least now we are on short replies - so which audio forums has this happened on? Not tech forums, that is goalpost moving, the topic is about female audiophiles, as it has been from the start of the thread. Which forums have you evidence of this occurring on?

If it has occurred elsewhere, why should that change how women feel about posting here?

 

[pseudoid]

...
If it has occurred elsewhere, why should that change how women feel about posting here?

I don't even know if "they" know this place even exists.
AFK: My noon appointment to a beauty salon to get a manicure!

 

[OCA]

This is a gross generalisation, but: men are interested in things, and women are interested in people. This is why there are so many male engineers and architects, and so many female nurses and social workers. Women also tend to lean more to the left in politics. It is likewise in this hobby, women tend to be more interested in the music, and men interested in equipment for sound reproduction.

I have also noticed that whenever I research into something new that interests me, men who have gone before me have taken it to the extreme. For example, when I bought my new house and wanted to mow the lawn myself, I watched some videos on Youtube on how to mow a lawn. What I saw made me shake my head at how crazy some guys are. Did you know that lawn levelling is a thing? They drag planks of wood (that they have verified are straight) across a lawn and look for sunlight peeking out under the gaps. They fill these gaps with sand, then wait for the lawn to grow through it. Then they mow it, and repeat the plank dragging. They do this until the lawn is perfectly level.

And then there are the cleaning enthusiasts. I am a bit of a cleaning enthusiast myself - I vacuum my floors twice a week, the kitchen gets steam mopped every time I fry, otherwise it gets steam mopped every week, and carpets get shampooed every 3 months. I have a carpet shampooing machine, two Dyson vacs, a steam cleaner. But this does not compare to how nuts some guys are. My wife is happy that I cook and clean like a fanatic, but I have seen those Youtube videos. There are guys who are on another level of crazy.

Many of my non-audio friends think I am crazy given how much I have spent on this hobby and how much I know about it. But then, I come to ASR and YOU GUYS are on another level of crazy. I mean, the forum owner has more than $100,000 of measuring equipment for ... measuring equipment for other people. For free. It's like me owning the Rolls Royce of mowing machines and volunteering to mow everyone else's lawn just for the pleasure of it.

Dyson is the Magico of vacum cleaners

 

[MattHooper]

This is a gross generalisation, but: men are interested in things, and women are interested in people.

When I was in my 20's to 30's and dating a lot, as well as going to movies with large groups of people, I noticed something: When we'd walk out of the movie theater, there was a difference in how the guys tended to analyze the movies vs the females. We guys tended to talk about the directing, the cinematography, the overall structure of the film-making. Wheres the women would be analyzing the success or lack of more from the believability of the characters, especially the emotional connections or social moves. "That was ridiculous, she would never have accepted that from a guy like him!" kind of stuff, where the emotional believability of the script would be called in to question.

I actually started paying attention to this for a while, to see if it was just a rare thing, but it really seemed to be a general trend. The guys evaluating the movie in a more technical way, the women evaluating the social aspects of the acting/script. (Funny enough, my wife and son recently saw Oppenheimer, and that same divide occurred when I asked them how the movie was).

I don't offer such anecdotes as proof of anything at all in terms of the wider differences, or not, between how women and men approach things and why. Such anecdotes clearly admit of bias selection. It's only to say that on a subject like the "differences between men and women" - applied to audio or otherwise - we live in this stuff. There is a lot of sheer anecdote and personal experience that creates very strong impressions, that seem for many amount to working beliefs, until much better, hard data is available. (And hopefully one can be open to overturning personal experience and observation, if the better data suggests it).

 

[Digby]

I don't even know if "they" know this place even exists.

They don't know what they're missing

 

[pseudoid]

... I am a bit of a cleaning enthusiast myself - I vacuum my floors twice a week, the kitchen gets steam mopped every time I fry, otherwise it gets steam mopped every week, and carpets get shampooed every 3 months. I have a carpet shampooing machine, two Dyson vacs, a steam cleaner. But this does not compare to how nuts some guys are. My wife is happy that I cook and clean like a fanatic, but I have seen those Youtube videos. There are guys who are on another level of crazy.

I am not certain what being a cleaning enthusiast entails but sounds costly and time consuming.
We are "cleanophiles" at our home but we let a nice lady come inside to do the cleaning we should.
The time she helps us save, allows me to lurk here but at a cost of only affording cheaper audio gear!
Heck, she now drives a late-model white RangeRover and carries fancy handbags.

 

[splitting_ears]

Here's an union report (and since it's ASR, some graphs) about gender discriminations and sexual harassment in a major Hi-Fi chain store in Australia:
https://raffwu.org.au/wp-content/up...ion-Sexual-Harrassment-at-JB-Hi-Fi-RAFFWU.pdf

 

[Salt]

Hum, sorry for the misunderstanding. It was a general statement, absolutely not about this forum (nor others) at all, but about actual real life. What's happening just about every day to many women.

Maybe, maybe not. I honestly have no clue.


About ASR in particular ? None. About what's happening out there ? The fact that I had and have to deal all day with domestic violences, treats, sexual and psychological harassment, rapes, or sometimes, hopefully very rarely, suicides and actual murders. For the record, because I'm not sure that many people realised it: I'm a social worker. But yes, ASR or Audio forums in general are way outside my professional prerogatives, so I will stop there.

Cruising around the islands beyond the edge of community is not Barby, I'm aware of by about 40 years of medical care experience.

Can absolutely identify to Your points, but am certain, if anything runs out of correctness, mods will interfere here, if it is not stopped by members before, though the OWM (count myself) sometimes tend to stretch the bungee ....

 

[Swtoby]

Why no female audiophiles? I don't care. If anything I wish there were more men involved in it, because in my reality out in the real world I'm the ONLY one who's into this hobby. For me, more men involved would make awkward social situations go more smoothly. It would be nice to regularly encounter guys who can discuss how to integrate a subwoofer with full range mains in a 2.1 theater system without it sounding like crap, or talk about the nuances of planar magnetic vs dynamic headphone drivers. Instead it's all about whether or not I watched the game. The conversation ends quickly as my eyes glaze over in ignorance and I wind up reaching for another beer to cope with the boredom.

 

[pseudoid]

Here's an union report (and since it's ASR, some graphs) about gender discriminations and sexual harassment in a major Hi-Fi chain store in Australia:

I got when I saw this part of your 2nd graph:

How does that one work?
Does the poor sob need to ask for permission to ask for an invitation to go on dates?

 

[Digby]

Does the poor sob need to ask for permission to ask for an invitation to go on dates?

No, because then it is unwanted 'asking for permission to ask for an invitation to go on a date'

 

[antcollinet]

At least now we are on short replies - so which audio forums has this happened on? Not tech forums, that is goalpost moving, the topic is about female audiophiles, as it has been from the start of the thread. Which forums have you evidence of this occurring on?

If it has occurred elsewhere, why should that change how women feel about posting here?

Addressing Gender-Based Harassment in Social MediaCOREhttps://core.ac.uk › download › pdf

Here I just opened the foruth link from a google search. Again the search showed 77 million results - how many similar reports do you think I could find.

And before you claim this isnt audio specific - it doesn't matter. This happens everywhere. Why would audio be excluded? In fact it is worse in male dominated spaces - what are we discussing here again?

A few quotes (in particular the last one about women self censoring or erasing online personas):

Abstract
Previous research indicates that women face a disproportionate amount of online harassment resulting from their identity as women. Despite its increasing prevalence, however, gender-based online harassment is still not well understood. Social media platforms are a critical medium for gender-based online harassment and the effects of this harassment on women can be devastating both to their personal lives and to their professional careers.

Social media platforms generate unique forms of abuse and are a critical medium for gender-based online harassment (Citron, 2014; Pew Research Center, 2014). The National Centre for Cyberstalking Research found that 63% of women reporting online harassment were harassed through social networking sites (2011). Another survey found that social media is the most common venue for all types of online harassment, with young women experiencing the most severe forms of harassment at disproportionately higher levels than other groups

Meyer and Cukier (2006) found that fake online accounts with feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day, while masculine names received only 3.7 messages.

As with “offline” harassment, the effects of online harassment on women can be devastating to their personal lives and professional careers (Citron, 2014; Hess, 2014). Women are almost twice as likely as men to list “fear of personal injury” as their primary fear related to online harassment

Because of a high level of online abuse and the multiple concerns (including physical safety) involved, many women admit to self-censoring or even erasing their online personas (Citron, 2014; Hess, 2014). From 2000 to 2005, Internet users who participated in online chats and discussion groups dropped from 28% to 17%, “entirely because of women’s fall off in participation” (Pew Internet & American Life Project, 2005, p. 14).

(My Bold)

 

[antcollinet]

I got when I saw this part of your 2nd graph:
View attachment 310128
How does that one work?
Does the poor sob need to ask for permission to ask for an invitation to go on dates?

Probably not. In the end it is about context and making sure the person feels comfortable with how they are being approached.

Perhaps they should establish a social relationship first before asking for a date.

Perhaps they should restrict even that to social occaisions rather than going after someone when they are trying to do their damn job.

Perhaps they should just avoid general creepy behaviour.

And for damn sure they should take the first no as final and stop asking over and over.

EDIT - and another for damn sure - if they are in any position of authority over the person they are thinking of asking, they should stay the hell away.


I could go on - but I'll summaise as : Just treat the person as a human being, and not a target/trophy.

 

[ta240]

Don't think so. These are the creatures who will pay a few thousand for a designer handbag which is basically a fabric or leather bag to carry stuff.

I agree. I think it is different priorities. At least partially, as restorer-john pointed out, guided by society.
The last speakers we bought are likely the last speakers we will buy. Because, "We have speakers, they are good speakers, we don't need speakers".

If I commented "I'd like to get some new speakers for the office" her reply would be "But you already have speakers in there". She enjoys good audio but to her, audio equipment is like appliances, if it is working you don't replace it.

 

[Digby]

Perhaps they should establish a relationship first before asking for a date.

Perhaps they should restrict even that to social occaisions rather than going after someone when they are trying to do their damn job.

Perhaps they should just avoid general creepy behaviour.

Isn't working with someone a relationship of sorts?
What if they have no opportunity to do so elsewhere?
Is it creepy to ask someone on a date...seriously?

Honestly, are we men just awful monsters or something? That is the feeling I get from some posters. Do you have brothers or sons and think similarly of them, or yourself even?

Should a young man never have the audacity to ask a woman he works with on a date, he should sooner go and live as a monk in a monastery, before being "creepy"?

And before you claim this isnt audio specific - it doesn't matter. This happens everywhere. Why would audio be excluded? In fact it is worse in male dominated spaces - what are we discussing here again?

Your links were about social media, which is known to be the place where all kinds of unpleasantness seems to congregate and proliferate. This isn't social media, this is a forum, about audio science and...reviews and stuff. The same can be said of 90% of audiophile hangouts.

Oh my goodness, I don't know what to say, I feel like a broken record (Sal will be pleased, we know how much he hates vinyl!) - is it happening here? I am not omnipotent, I can't patrol the entire internet looking for infractions. You say it happens everywhere, but I don't see it here, is it happening here?

Perhaps it isn't happening everywhere...perhaps other audio forums are more similar to this one, than they are different - isn't that a possibility?

 

[Reed]

I am into your perspective on the connection between autistic traits and hobbies like trainspotting, audiophilia, and philately. I wanted to chime in as someone who is female and has autism. During my studies, I experienced extreme anxiety, and it was quite challenging. However, I found several practices and sensory products helpful in managing my anxiety. Weighted blankets and sensory products like fidget toys, sensory stars, weighted animals provided a comforting sensory experience. They helped me stay grounded and reduce anxiety during stressful times.
As for the discussion about autism in engineers or other professions, it would indeed be intriguing to see if there's a correlation between autism and certain career choices. Such research could shed light on the diverse experiences of individuals on the autism spectrum.

Thanks for this. I’m a bit obsessive compulsive. That’s not self-diagnosed btw. My father, an engineer had it. Obcom isn’t always about cleaning or locking doors. I’m pretty sure it plays a role in how I relate to sound. I say sound because even though at 65 my hearing isn’t what it used to be, my brain can isolate sounds and imbalance to the point that I find it very uncomfortable. OTOH, accurately reproduced music, is the one thing that can chill me out.

 

[pseudoid]

While working in a corporate environment as a punk-ass EE, we were required to start attending "sensitivity-training".
The first attempt for this seminar was called "Sexual Harassment and Illegal Discharge in the Workplace".
.... Until the corporate-HR realized the title needed an urgent modification!
We've come a long way!

 

[antcollinet]

Isn't working with someone a relationship of sorts?

Not necessarily of the sort where asking personal questions is appropriate.

What if they have no opportunity to do so elsewhere?

Then if the place where they do have an opportunity is inappropriate simply leave it.

Is it creepy to ask someone on a date...seriously?

Context is everything. It is not inherently creepy. Often the way it is implemented is.

If a person doesn't want to create an "unwanted request to go on a date" they need to make damn sure the way they are doing it is not creepy. If they are not sure what that looks like, then they should steer clear of asking for dates at work.

Seriously - what is hard to understand about:

Just treat the person as a human being, and not a target/trophy.

this isn't social media, this is a forum,

Forums are (at least by my definition) a form of social media - we are socialising here, are we not?

 

[kemmler3D]

And for damn sure they should take the first no as final and stop asking over and over.

I've heard about a corporate policy along these lines, in that you were allowed to ask a co-worker on a date... once. I think it makes sense.