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Why do you think a few members have an 'alcoholic anonymous' vibe towards the audiophile community? It seems a harmless hobby as far as things go?

Sal1950

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Would you say the same about gambling? In both high-end audio and gambling you lose money that you didn't need to.

Not all gamblers are losers.

The worse part about gambling is those who can afford to lose the least, participate the most. :(
 

Timcognito

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There are plenty of tube, turntable and, dare I say, music enthusiasts clinging to their class A and LPs posting on ASR... to paraphrase a Presidential slip
 
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fatoldgit

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Someone who has laid out serious cash for speaker wire, interconnect or a/c cords, only to find out they didn't improve performance one iota, will be understandably pissed. .

I have frequented/read many audio forums over many years (not as a member per se) and I cannot recall any one who spent big money on a cable or component getting pissed off with what they brought (at least in public)

To the contrary, its always blacker blacks, more veils lifted etc.

And of course, the more expensive "stuff" they add the more additive the changes are (esp in the digital domain with little expensive gadgets all hook together in series).

But I put this down to group think... if some luminary on the forum just got the Kamakuza Ultra Plus Plus cable and its amazing and then another member does, they by definition must hear a massive positive difference to ensure they remain an accepted member of the forum.

I view most of the magazine and reviewer websites as forums... people gather around the luminary, follow that persons utterances and group think prevails.

ASR does the same thing (in a positive way)... we enforce a group think that means subjective trolls dont last long.

But we also help those from the "dark side" who are willing to hear our message and correct their ways.

Peter
 
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Sal1950

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I have frequented/read many audio forums over many years (not as a member per se) and I cannot recall any one who spent big money on a cable or component getting pissed off with what they brought (at least in public)
Yep, Very few will ever spend the big bucks and admit they were scammed.
The only time they say something negative is when they trade up to something even more expensive.
Then they'll talk about audible weakness of the old gear.
You read the exact same thing in the High End media reviews like Stereophile or TAS.
 

fatoldgit

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The only time they say something negative is when they trade up to something even more expensive.

Agree but its not really negative in the sense that in their minds $$$$ spent = performance.

So it's "my new $10k cable is way better than my old $5k cable but thats to be expected cause its cost twice as much".

Thus the old cable, which 2 years ago lifted 3 veils and was one I raved about is bested by the new cable which lifted 5 veils.

Nothing derogatory towards the old cable cause what do you expect for a paltry $5k.

Peter
 

fatoldgit

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As per a recent stereophile review (noting the comment isnt about the cable under review but rather the reviewers cable journey):

Changing to Kimber silver interconnects and speaker cables threw a brighter, purer light on every recording. Atmospherics and the specters of performers became a more prominent part of the listening experience. Equally noticeable was how silver added something akin to a shimmering halo around the stereo apparition. I found these enhancements appealing and worth the extra cost.

A few years later, I switched to hair-thin, hand-drawn Italian silver wire from Audio Note Japan (now Kondo). Those wires, which were made entirely in-house, took data retrieval to an extreme level that forced me to coin a new descriptor—"LSD-spiderweb"—which referred to the surfeit of detail I experienced.


So sure, the retort would be "have you tried it"?.

We can POTENTIALLY agree that a change in the drawing of the silver wire might change something BUT if the change is to such an extreme level (as per reviewer) then such extreme playback changes would/should exhibit themselves in the LCR of the cable?

I do have respect for JA for doing the measurements (although sometimes he pulls his punches in the conclusion) but they never measure cables... which seems strange cause (1) cables reviewed are expensive and (2) they invariably cause a positive effect on the reviewers already expensive, well sorted system. Back to the $$$$ spent = performance mindset.

Peter
 

Ron Texas

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It's certainly possible to get outright scammed in audio, or even wind up spending tons of money for stuff which doesn't make much of a difference. One of the purposes of ASR is to help people avoid those traps.
 

OldHvyMec

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To the contrary, its always blacker blacks, more veils lifted etc.
I've yet to hear anyone complain only praise their purchase/trade-up/trade-in. I could never bring myself as a person of reason to
buy into the "You get what you pay for" with anything I can make. I can't buy a Stradivarius but I'll be darned if I'll go without a
fiddle. I can afford just about anything I want, the difference is I can't hear the difference in a million dollar system vs my system
and it's my wallet that's causing, both systems to sounds the same" not my ears.

I say that with full disclosure. I buy Mcintosh gear pretty often and it's always because of the ability to resell. No matter what, Macs
sell, down to the knobs from a C-20 two story drop I bought for 20.00 usd one time. The guy pissed off his girlfriend behind buying
to much stuff, speaking of addicts. He was a 1000.00 PC buyer and 5K speaker cables, get mad and sell it for pennies on the dollar.
He stayed in debt, broke, mad and in general not a very nice guy. He was one of those guys that tells the person to do all kinds of
weird stuff to his hamburger and then wonder why it taste like spit.

Time to feed my chickens

Regards
 

DMill

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Without reading back 20 pages. Nobody cares how much you want to spend. But there has to be Bull Shit call out for anyone who may read this thread and think I just bought these great new Revel speakers and the guy told me I need Levinson AMP, a $2000 DAC, and some cables that cost too much. So if it sounds like AA, it might. Stop drinking that juice.
 

guy48065

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...
I view most of the magazine and reviewer websites as forums... people gather around the luminary, follow that persons utterances and group think prevails.

ASR does the same thing (in a positive way differently)... we enforce a group think that means subjective trolls dont last long.
...

FTFY

Zealots don't see themselves as such, but 'the other side' recognize the signs.
One side believes fervently that human ears can resolve differences not yet measurable.
The other side has absolute faith in the superiority of their meters.
There are folks in both camps that go too far to denigrate those that "don't Believe".
 

Sal1950

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The best news here is that these really are the golden years of High Fidelity!
You can buy SOTA sound for peanuts starting at used CD's for a dollar or two, used or new CD/BluRay disc players and everything else up to the end of the speaker cable. Only when we get to the speakers do we need to reach down into the pockets a bit
to get some excellent performance. I'm not saying you can't get some really great sound from some reasonably priced speakers,
you'll just need to really do your homework and take your time in finding the best bang for the buck when you get to the end of the wire.
 

Justdafactsmaam

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The best news here is that these really are the golden years of High Fidelity!
You can buy SOTA sound for peanuts starting at used CD's for a dollar or two, used or new CD/BluRay disc players and everything else up to the end of the speaker cable. Only when we get to the speakers do we need to reach down into the pockets a bit
to get some excellent performance. I'm not saying you can't get some really great sound from some reasonably priced speakers,
you'll just need to really do your homework and take your time in finding the best bang for the buck when you get to the end of the wire.
You can get good sound for cheap. SOTA does not come cheap. SOTA rooms are the biggest hurdle for almost everyone. SOTA rooms, for those who can actually pursue them in their homes are going to cost a pretty penny and be a major project.

SOTA speakers and DSP aren’t outrageous but far from cheap.

But yeah, decent sound is achievable at reasonable prices.

And of course one can spend 7 figures on crap sound. Witness just about every audio show these days
 

Sal1950

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Your's partner?
The Great American Sound Company, Yea!
That Zilla sure looks to be in sweet shape!

I loved those old monster amps of the 70s.
I still miss my Flame Linear 700B
It just looked so Bad Ass sitting in the Audio Shrine.
PhaseLinear1.jpg
 

antcollinet

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FTFY

Zealots don't see themselves as such, but 'the other side' recognize the signs.
One side believes fervently that human ears can resolve differences not yet measurable.
The other side has absolute faith in the superiority of their meters.
There are folks in both camps that go too far to denigrate those that "don't Believe".
I'll agree that there are some here who go way too far to ridicule those who are of a different mindset.

But stop with the false equivalence.

One side is basing their viewpoint (not belief) on established science and engineering, known experiments and valid observations. The other side is not. In fact they will frequently come up with all sorts of excuses to avoid performing relatively simple tests where the results might contradict their belief system.

We are not in a situation where the truth lies somewhere between the two.
 

Sal1950

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FTFY

Zealots don't see themselves as such, but 'the other side' recognize the signs.
One side believes fervently that human ears can resolve differences not yet measurable.
The other side has absolute faith in the superiority of their meters.
There are folks in both camps that go too far to denigrate those that "don't Believe".

The biggest issue here is the statement, "has absolute faith in the superiority of their meters"
The meters are not superior and no one made that claim.
The claim is that there's nothing heard that can't be measured.

It's like the old saw of subjectivsts saying we claim "all amplifiers sound alike".
Not in the least way is that true.
Amplifiers can and do sound very different, all the reasons are well known and the reasons measurable.

Try to put the opposition on the defensive if you can, that's the game.
Just don't be dumb enough to chase them, they make more than enough dumb remarks all on their own. ROTF
 
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