Which speaker characteristics are best for preserving your hearing?

[Frgirard]

headphones and the like are used in noisy environments.

the perceived sound volume is increased or reduced by the decay.
with the headphones, the low decay makes the perceived sound level lower.


it's two conditions that the sound level used in headphones can be excessive.

 

[Mnyb]

Yes avoid prolonged sessions in headphones.

Take care on live events with loud music , don’t be to close to the rig it sure fun to have your trousers flapping close to bass bins ....

Avoid my life , being at industrial sites close to very noisy machines in paper mills and steel mills .
Funny enough the fans in large drive systems have noise in the 500-4000hz range where you not want it.
Suppose large datacenters and server rooms have similar fan drone , but in my experience not that loud.

 

[Mnyb]

... and always wear your hearing protection on such sites that needs it .

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes avoid prolonged sessions in headphones.

Take care on live events with loud music , don’t be to close to the rig it sure fun to have your trousers flapping close to bass bins ....

Avoid my life , being at industrial sites close to very noisy machines in paper mills and steel mills .
Funny enough the fans in large drive systems have noise in the 500-4000hz range where you not want it.
Suppose large datacenters and server rooms have similar fan drone , but in my experience not that loud.

The exhaust hoods in professional kitchens... aren't always loud, but the constant prolonged exposure has been claimed to be somewhat detrimental. I never took an SPL meter into the kitchen with me, but you are standing under those hoods for 6-8 hours!

I do not miss that.

 

[Neuro]

Trying to figure out what speaker characteristics are best for preserving your hearing,
I've found a lot of opinions but little science on the matter.

E.g some say consumer speakers are better than studio monitors in this regard since consumer speakers (supposedly) have built-in compression to even out volume levels. In other words it makes the difference in db between the loudest and most quietest sounds less, so you need less volume to hear the quitest sounds, and also get less volume spikes from the loudest sounds. Is that true?

Some say low bass is more damaging than other frequencies, and therefore low bass extension speakers and subwoofers should be avoided. Others say treble is worse than bass. Anyone know the true answer? I found one study that warns against low bass, but does not compare it to treble.

Some say headphones are worse for your hearing, others say speakers....

Are there other speaker characteristics that are relevant, is e.g. a flat response curve best for preserving hearing?

There is a consensus in medical research that high frequencies, especially around 3600 Hz, are more harmful than low ones. Repetitive exposure to more than 85 dB for longer than 8 hours/day creates permanent hearing damage. Transient sound reproduced with optimal PA loudspeakers close to the ear - gunshots - causes permanent hearing damage around 3500 Hz.

- Low distortion speakers are better than speakers with some distortion as there is no need to listen at high volume to mask the distortion.
- Array loudspeakers with cylindrical sound dispersion are preferable in ordinary listening rooms to spherical ones due to lower level of sound-destroying reflections at lower volumes.
- Horn speakers or other speakers with high directivity do not require as high a volume due to fewer sound-destroying reflections at lower volumes.
- One speaker in mono is better than two in stereo due to less sound-destroying reflexes and no need to be compensated with higher volume.
- Heavily dampened room is preferable to small reflected room as fewer sound destroying reflections are created at lower lower volume.
- Listening close to the loudspeaker increases the relative share of direct sound and reduces the share of sound-destroying reflections.

In ordinary listening rooms, a majority of the reflexes are too early and interfere with the direct sound in a negative way. This is to some extent comparable to the effect of a separate disturbing noise on the direct sound. Both noise and premature reflexes can usually be masked with higher overall volume.

 

[dasdoing]

There is a consensus in medical research that high frequencies, especially around 3600 Hz, are more harmful than low ones.

Which speaker characteristics are best for preserving your hearing?

Trying to figure out what speaker characteristics are best for preserving your hearing, I've found a lot of opinions but little science on the matter. E.g some say consumer speakers are better than studio monitors in this regard since consumer speakers (supposedly) have built-in compression to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Trdat]

Funnily many audio engineers warn that objectively great loudspeakers/headphones can be potentially more damaging to the hearing as due to their lack of distortion and coloration which makes people turn the volume higher.

This is true. My speakers aren't tested but through a tri-amp system with all equipment measured in the chain with pristine results has given me a very low distortion system with my CD and 15 inch combination. I often crank 105db to 110 dB C weighted with long listening sessions around 75-80db.

Of course the 110db for only short periods and my ears never get tired. But yesterday for the first time it hurt probably because I was making a video and lost concentration on keeping note of the maximum handling on my ears.

 

[ColorblindLepricon]

Any speaker/sound system with good adjustments for "loudness" or bass+treble, so that one can listen at lower levels and still get a satisfying sound, without feeling the need to crank up the volume. I find that Sonos has very good and intuitive controls for this in their app (for example when using Sonos port as a streamer), which I use a lot to both adjust to volume and to individual bass balance in records. I'm sure there are many other good solutions as well.

There are also anecdotal and subjective reports that some loudspeakers just sound better at low levels, whereas other loudspeakers need more volume to sound "alive". I have experienced this myself, but I haven't seen any research on it or systematic explorations into what it may be about.

Loudness? Is this some sort of EQ adjustment to boost bass+treble?

 

[ColorblindLepricon]

May I suggest reading my post?

How loud is loud, how to measure it? Is THX calibration bad for your health?

I am an electroacoustics engineer. We are a rare breed. When I got my M.Sc. my class of six were the only ones in UK. I am now retired from engineering and audio is my hobby. You can find more about me on the about page on my profile. The behaviour of the sound (acoustics) and how we hear it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I did! I wasn't aware of the dosimeter, that's useful knowledge

 

[ColorblindLepricon]

since music averages to pink noise

Can you elaborate on this? Not sure I understand it

 

[ColorblindLepricon]

There is a consensus in medical research that high frequencies, especially around 3600 Hz, are more harmful than low ones. Repetitive exposure to more than 85 dB for longer than 8 hours/day creates permanent hearing damage. Transient sound reproduced with optimal PA loudspeakers close to the ear - gunshots - causes permanent hearing damage around 3500 Hz.

- Low distortion speakers are better than speakers with some distortion as there is no need to listen at high volume to mask the distortion.
- Array loudspeakers with cylindrical sound dispersion are preferable in ordinary listening rooms to spherical ones due to lower level of sound-destroying reflections at lower volumes.
- Horn speakers or other speakers with high directivity do not require as high a volume due to fewer sound-destroying reflections at lower volumes.
- One speaker in mono is better than two in stereo due to less sound-destroying reflexes and no need to be compensated with higher volume.
- Heavily dampened room is preferable to small reflected room as fewer sound destroying reflections are created at lower lower volume.
- Listening close to the loudspeaker increases the relative share of direct sound and reduces the share of sound-destroying reflections.

In ordinary listening rooms, a majority of the reflexes are too early and interfere with the direct sound in a negative way. This is to some extent comparable to the effect of a separate disturbing noise on the direct sound. Both noise and premature reflexes can usually be masked with higher overall volume.

Thanks! This is very knowledgeable and informative, I hadn't considered the interference effects of two speakers, but stereo sounds so much better!

I still wonder if studio monitors or consumer speakers are best, since consumer speakers (supposedly) even out volume levels so no need to listen so loud. Maybe the smile curve on many of those speakers will lower the volume around 3600 hz, that would in theory be beneficial.

Also what is going on in your profile pic? Brain cancer?

 

[fpitas]

- Horn speakers or other speakers with high directivity do not require as high a volume due to fewer sound-destroying reflections at lower volumes.

interesting. It is true, I can hear a lot of detail even at surprisingly low volumes. Flies in the face of the myth that us horn guys crank it up to 11 all the time

 

[dasdoing]

Can you elaborate on this? Not sure I understand it

the RMS average of music generally aprouches a pink noise shape. but again, as I also noted that doesn't mean that peaks can't aprouch 0dBFS in the higher frequencies

 

[MKreroo]

For headphone I think it might help to calculate the theoretical maximum SPL with a given output level on the amp. I don't know how this could be done with active speakers

 

[dped90]

Yes, the single issue to focus on is volume. Keep the volume at or below 75db and you will have happy ears. If you must listen to louder music, make sure it is for shorter time periods, Most of it is common sense. Good Luck!

My biggest safety concern with horn speakers and super tweeters is protecting against unexpected peaks in program material. My room is 20 ft x 11 ft-then across a 4 ft wide hallway and into a 9 ft x 8 kitchen. A triangular ceiling that peaks at 11 ft is above everything. I plan to sit 11 ft from speakers with mid horn/driver and tweeter like these, but minus the back loaded horn. https://josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-system-no-2095

These woofers playing down to ~ 55Hz.

Below those I have two or three of these subs to use. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html

All music sources and movies (DVD, BD) are pc-based, with JRiver being my primary Windows player. Whether I use a stereo or DAC to first measure and correct the room acoustically as best I can-or then attempt further correction via a MCH DAC (e.g. https://www.merging.com/products/interfaces/hapi )-I was assured by Hapi users that I can control master volume and mute via a wireless Windows keyboard.

Having a lightweight keyboard on my lap for volume/mute is one thing, but it's those split second SPL blasts from movies, that all too often crop up in movies that can hit your ears, which literally terrifies me-as it should anyone who values their hearing (??!!). So, what's the best solution to provide instantaneous protection against dangerous SPLs while preserving audio quality (resolution)?

Some kind of limiter plug-in?? What would be best? But how fast and precise can it limit SPLs? And what sonic penalties might I pay for using it?

 

[Anton S]

...

Having a lightweight keyboard on my lap for volume/mute is one thing, but it's those split second SPL blasts from movies, that all too often crop up in movies that can hit your ears, which literally terrifies me-as it should anyone who values their hearing (??!!). So, what's the best solution to provide instantaneous protection against dangerous SPLs while preserving audio quality (resolution)?

Some kind of limiter plug-in?? What would be best? But how fast and precise can it limit SPLs? And what sonic penalties might I pay for using it?

For more enjoyable and non-injurious playback of some productions - Intersteller comes immediately to mind - you should engage some sort of dynamic range compressor. The Dolby Volume Leveler has worked well in my system when playing such content.

 

[DVDdoug]

Some kind of limiter plug-in?? What would be best?

I don't know but there are hardware compressor/limiters (limiting is a kind of fast dynamic compression so both functions are often built-into the same unit) and plug-ins, but the plug-ins are generally intended to be used in a DAW (for audio production). The limiter in Audacity (an audio file editor) has look-ahead so it can limit without distorting the waveform.

But how fast and

Limiting is normally instantaneous, unlike regular compression which has an attack time. Or as above, when you're working with digital files, it can look-ahead (negative attack time).

precise can it limit SPLs?

You can calibrate with an SPL meter.

With headphones, you'd have to check the sensitivity spec and measure the voltage. Or, just get an SPL meter and keep an eye on it when you're turning-up the volume.

But if you are concerned about hearing damage it's not straightforward because it also depends on the duration of the loud sound. An orchestra occasionally hitting 100dB is not as harmful as a rock band constantly hitting 100dB, and it depends on how long and how often you listen, etc. SPL meters are normally A-weighted (to adjust for the ear's "frequency response") and they normally show a short-term average. That correlates pretty-well with potential hearing damage, but they don't usually keep track over the day, which is also a factor.

Occasional loud peaks in music aren't usually harmful so limiting them is unlikely to help. (Of course, a short gunshot or explosion can damage your hearing.)

And what sonic penalties might I pay for using it?

Of course you are reducing musical dynamic contrast which can make music less enjoyable. It's the same reason many music lovers hate The Loudness War.

But dynamic compression can sometimes improve movies. Often the effects are too loud when you turn it up enough to hear the dialog, especially at home where we tend to listen at lower volumes. Even in theaters people sometimes complain about the loudness, and sometimes they walk out.

When limiting is over-done it can sound like distortion, and in fact without look-ahead the waveform is distorted.

Some say headphones are worse for your hearing, others say speakers....

The problem is, almost everybody owns headphones that go loud enough to damage hearing. Most people don't have speakers & amplifiers that can go that loud. And headphones often "stay clean" at loud volumes whereas "average" speakers often distort. And you can turn-up headphones without bothering anybody.

 

[dped90]

For more enjoyable and non-injurious playback of some productions - Intersteller comes immediately to mind - you should engage some sort of dynamic range compressor. The Dolby Volume Leveler has worked well in my system when playing such content.

Thanks, but if it's not available as a Windows plug-in that I can use with JRiver player then it's n/g for me. I gave up long ago with anything Dolby because 90% of everything they offer is only available on some chip in an AVR or in a processor with loads of connectivity and other things I don't need, much less would want to pay for.

Actually, I haven't even installed JRiver yet as my speakers aren't built yet; need to settle on a tweeter. As for headphones, they are way too dangerous to risk my hearing with. But my speakers will be using midrange and tweeter horn drivers, and with >93db/w/m sensitivity might produce ear damaging SPLs at 10 ft in my 2470 cu ft room. So, I'm hoping JRiver has some kind of volume limiting control utility that's programmable separately for movies and music. Only on rare occassions would I play loud rock or orchestral music, and only those recordings I've previewed first at low levels with JRiver's Gizmo and/or keyboard volume/mute. It's the instantaneous and unexpected gunshots, explosions, door slams, engine gunning, trombone/trumpet blasts et al in movie/TV soundtracks that worry me and ruin the fun.

 

[dped90]

Of course you are reducing musical dynamic contrast which can make music less enjoyable. It's the same reason many music lovers hate The Loudness War.

But dynamic compression can sometimes improve movies. Often the effects are too loud when you turn it up enough to hear the dialog, especially at home where we tend to listen at lower volumes. Even in theaters people sometimes complain about the loudness, and sometimes they walk out.

When limiting is over-done it can sound like distortion, and in fact without look-ahead the waveform is distorted.

Please, don't get me started on that tragedy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war So much of my favorite music was ruined by the abuse of dynamic range compression as a profiteering weapon by greedy record producers and egotistical artists. Sometimes I sit and hope that some years from now there will be an AI-driven app with resolution high enough to precisely map every audible vocal, instrumental and acoustical aspect of a recording and then recreate the music with its original dynamic range intact.

Share the fantasy.

 

[Andysu]

Please, don't get me started on that tragedy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war So much of my favorite music was ruined by the abuse of dynamic range compression as a profiteering weapon by greedy record producers and egotistical artists. Sometimes I sit and hope that some years from now there will be an AI-driven app with resolution high enough to precisely map every audible vocal, instrumental and acoustical aspect of a recording and then recreate the music with its original dynamic range intact.

Share the fantasy.

agree , same with those greedy soundmixer near field sony pictures , disney with soundmixers junk , tampered with theatrical mixes into junk near field , cd discs don't buy as many as used to as aware of " the loudness war "