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Which audio setup will minimize listening fatigue ?

pseudoid

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Frankly, Jimbob54, I don't know what I mean and I am not sure if @Bouly has been able to determine the source of his fatigue.
I am glad you did not take offense to any part of the corollary to rider+ear-plugs.
I still have my good hearing to thank for, after 50+ years of riding w/less fatigue.
A doubled-up unused cig-filters were once used on a trip thru central America.
 

Timcognito

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DSP for speaker EQ and Room correction on your current setup. For me bright high frequency has caused the most fatigue.
 

Jimbob54

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Frankly, Jimbob54, I don't know what I mean and I am not sure if @Bouly has been able to determine the source of his fatigue.
I am glad you did not take offense to any part of the corollary to rider+ear-plugs.
I still have my good hearing to thank for, after 50+ years of riding w/less fatigue.
A doubled-up unused cig-filters were once used on a trip thru central America.

I would have thought you and others were right on the money with either playing too loud too long or possibly something in the speakers/ room/ headphones being off with the FR and over emphasising the higher frequencies.
 

Jimbob54

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he already said he don't do that...
How does he know?

Also, Im not sure that passing (how steep that cut off is I know not) everything below 80hz is going to result in pleasing sound from anything. Decidedly wonky.
 

VMAT4

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Have you considered having the monitors measured? Say, by Amir? That may tell you if the problem is possibly solved by EQ.
Have you tried listing to the monitors in other environments? What I'm thinking is it could be the monitors, or the room or the way the speakers and room sound together.

What was it about the Eris8 that appealed to you and lead you to buy it?
 

pseudoid

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What was it about the Eris8 that appealed to you and lead you to buy it?
In this day and age, the difference between a "Studio Monitor" and a "Bookshelf" speaker lays in a narrow DMZ.
If "price was no object".
Originally, Studio Monitors were made to be as accurate as possible to what was being recorded.
Originally, Studio Monitors were designed with a known environment they would be working in.
The other known was also the fact that the 'user' would be in the near-field, in relation to the hanging speaker.
The Eris8 sounds like such a speaker (now discontinued?). Do you think that maybe it is 'too transparent' rather amiss?
 

VMAT4

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In this day and age, the difference between a "Studio Monitor" and a "Bookshelf" speaker lays in a narrow DMZ.
If "price was no object".
Originally, Studio Monitors were made to be as accurate as possible to what was being recorded.
Originally, Studio Monitors were designed with a known environment they would be working in.
The other known was also the fact that the 'user' would be in the near-field, in relation to the hanging speaker.
The Eris8 sounds like such a speaker (now discontinued?). Do you think that maybe it is 'too transparent' rather amiss?
At this point, I just looked at the back panel of one on Guitar Center, I have to wonder if the acoustic space is set properly on both monitors and or if the HF has been rolled off at all.

I don't use pro gear to listen. But that could change depending on future trends in the real estate market, My wife and I are always looking for a new place, lately.
 
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Bouly

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Sounds OK. Some powered monitors clip at higher SPL/longer distances - which is definitely fatiguing. Are you controlling volume from the DAC or the speaker? (see the thread around here)
For the volume what I ended up doing :
- turn speakers off and set the input gain knob on the back of the speakers to minimum
- set Windows and Foobar volume to 100%
- set DAC volume to -9 Db
- start playing a song
- turn speakers back up, and turn the input gain knob on the speakers back up slowly until I reach comfortable listening volume level.
I had to go back and forth between the 2 speakers to adjust so that the stereo was approximately centered.
Then use the DAC to adjust volume depending on song using the remote
Then depending on song but at around -18 Db on the DAC for moderate volume listening.
To be honest with this DAC I'm a bit lost because there is so much detail and so little noise that I can't tell for sure how loud I am really playing.
 
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Bouly

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I've the RME ADI-2 DAC FS myself and I like it a lot for it's features, of which there are many, so the manual is really helpful. I recommend downloading it so you can search it easily. The Bit Test (bottom of the Product page), drivers and manual are here: https://rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html

For gain/level matching your DAC to your monitors have a look at this post on the RME Audio forum, section 2: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=161721#p161721

You might need attenuators if your monitors are very sensitive and have limited sensitive controls: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=161721#p161721
On page 7 of the manual there is a warning against using XLR with unbalanced equipment. And advising to keep the third XLR pin unconnected. I dont know how to tell if the Eris E8 are unbalanced and not sure how I can disconnect one pin from the XLR cable. But I tried not using XLR, replacing the XLR cables with some quality RCA cables and it seems the sound improved quite a bit.
 

pseudoid

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...not sure how I can disconnect one pin from the XLR cable.
XLR connectors have three pins HOT/COLD/Ground. Pin 3 is most normally the COLD and is the center-ish pin.
Most XLRs are modular connectors and can be readily modified or what most XLR to "phone jack" cables do internal to the cable assembly.
Besides different diameter, there are two versions of RCA type one is three 'pin' TRS (Tip(+) and Ring (-) and Sleeve(Gnd)), the other is just "unbalanced (+/ground)" config, usually 3.5mm or 2.5mm. ERIS E8 is shown to be able accept any of these 3 inputs as shown in its rear panel, if I am look at the same unit.
Snag_3e586757.png
 
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Bouly

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XLR connectors have three pins HOT/COLD/Ground. Pin 3 is most normally the COLD and is the center-ish pin.
Most XLRs are modular connectors and can be readily modified or what most XLR to "phone jack" cables do internal to the cable assembly.
Besides different diameter, there are two versions of RCA type one is three 'pin' TRS (Tip(+) and Ring (-) and Sleeve(Gnd)), the other is just "unbalanced (+/ground)" config, usually 3.5mm or 2.5mm. ERIS E8 is shown to be able accept any of these 3 inputs as shown in its rear panel, if I am look at the same unit.
View attachment 162081
Does it make any difference with regards to sound quality if I use XLR vs RCA ? I thought the whole point of using XLR is to have the 3 wires for ground, + and - , so modding the cable to remove one seems like defeating the purpose.
 

Jimbob54

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So you have cut off at 80hz and not put any form of sub in place? That has to sound wonky and I would imagine pretty fatiguing. And you are probably cranking them higher than you would if there was bass there so getting a shrill sound.
 

Trell

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Does it make any difference with regards to sound quality if I use XLR vs RCA ? I thought the whole point of using XLR is to have the 3 wires for ground, + and - , so modding the cable to remove one seems like defeating the purpose.

You don't need to mod the XLR cables as your monitors has balanced XLR input as shown by @pseudoid and your DAC supports that directly. Below is links to specs as well as the manual. I would download the manual as reference just in case it is removed from the website.


 
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Bouly

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It seems like the listening fatigue issue is mostly resolved. I think the solution was mostly to adjust the input gain on the speakers (setting it close to minimum), and maybe switching to RCA cables helped. If I would switch to amp + passive speakers or to a different set of speakers it would be mostly to be able to adjust volume more easily. I had to turn the input gain knob a quarter of a millimeter from the minimum. Also since both speakers are powered independently it was not super easy to make them even.
So you have cut off at 80hz and not put any form of sub in place? That has to sound wonky and I would imagine pretty fatiguing. And you are probably cranking them higher than you would if there was bass there so getting a shrill sound.
At the moment I have removed the cutoff. I dont feel its necessary anymore. You are right it does amputate some songs, especially bass heavy EDM. I am indeed listening at a lower volume than before. The DAC is blowing my brain up with all the detail, so that could create fatigue, and also it confused me because the usual way I can tell if volume is up (noise and slight distortion) is gone, so could be that I set the volume too high. Anyway I am enjoying the music more now, I am giving myself some time to adjust my ears.
 

Frgirard

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In fact I have the Eris E8 speakers set with the 80 Hz low cutoff on, otherwise I would get a headache in a few minutes. S Thanks for any insight!
if I read correctly, no subwoofer and main cut at 80 Hz.

as long as you keep this cutoff at 80 Hz, you will have ear fatigue.

Use a headphone
 

Rc Lobarniz

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Hi there, I am going to try to answer your question with my own experience.
I bought a pair of QAcoustics 3020 years ago, they had wonderful reviews and they were affordable.
I was happy with them and I enjoyed them a lot too, but if I listened for long periods I came to a point that literally gave me a headache.
Was it because they were "bright"? Honestly I do not know but they are described as such.
So I bought a pair of Monitor Audio SILVER 100 and they are so different that I could listen all day long with no tiredness.
The latter speakers are deemed laid back but detail is very good and the 8" woofer is impressive.
So that is my take, bright speakers are not for me. I hoped it helped you.
 

AnalogSteph

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I presume that the ADI-2 DAC FS would be shipping with the Auto Ref Level function enabled, but it can't hurt to check. (RTFM for how to get to it. RME gear has some of the most thorough documentation you'll find, as making full use of pro audio equipment would not be possible otherwise.) The same output level as with a 2 Vrms source like the STX would be seen at a volume setting of -11 dB.

That is obviously assuming that both balanced and unbalanced inputs are of the same sensitivity, which they may not.

A contemporary review of the E8s indicated a preference for a slight bass reduction (Acoustic Space = -2 dB), as well as bringing up the mids up a smidge and the highs down a bit. The midbass seems to be anything but shy on them.
 
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