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Where is the "Kick Bass Drum" ?

bennybbbx

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My usual spot is about 5' off the back wall, center room. The room has been corrected with ARC Genesis from Anthem (7.2.4 and 2). But, next week or so I'll be decoupling the room and making it soundproof; starting all over again.

on the list of equipment i see no headphone. have you compare with headphone, if you hear kick drum better as with your speakers ?

measure systems can not trust much. if you sit in the middle of the room is not good often bass range less or higher freq is cancel. you can try easy hear room modes with this testtone generator.


hear also if the test tone is in the middle. click on the place where a 440 is.

online tone generator.jpg


and here select the tones. now you can hear when you click on the neighbar tone if it sound simular loud as the previous tone. this often help to find and correct room modes. you also need check if the tone come from middle. for this test disable center speaker. much speakers can cause much problems.


tones.jpg
 

beagleman

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I think I know what he means, as I do stuff with live sound. In my live sound work, the way they want it makes the bass/kick drum TRULY pound when it is hit. When I get back home, normal studio recordings that tend to sound "Good" never have this huge loud impact.

Part is Visual as you see EVERY hit of the drum visually at my place where it will be seen to vibrate. Our other drums are unusually loud when he plays them loud. They are NOT compressed at all, as in studio recordings.

At the same time, we have the cymbals a bit recessed and muted to not ring and sizzle in a huge room we use.

Another part, we are using literally Several Sound Reinfocement pro subs that are all 18" and when all are engaged and cranked up with a few hundred watts, the power shakes the entire small auditorium.

Part it is for live sound to sound more exciting the dynamics are not limited.
In a home environment it would be annoying.
 

bluefuzz

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I know myself and the drummer are not happy
You do understand that the drummer may not actually be trying to kick a hole through his drum skin just for your amusement?

The kick drum is part of a whole instrument that in turm is an integral part of a band/musical ensemble hopefully playing together toward some higher artistic goal. That may mean the kick is played loudly or softly depending on artistic choice/vision ...
 
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Rjharle

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You do understand that the drummer may not actually be trying to kick a hole through his drum skin just for your amusement?

The kick drum is part of a whole instrument that in turm is an integral part of a band/musical ensemble hopefully playing together toward some higher artistic goal. That may mean the kick is played loudly or softly depending on artistic choice/vision ...
Wow for my amusement :rolleyes: Why didn't I think of that :facepalm:
 
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Rjharle

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on the list of equipment i see no headphone. have you compare with headphone, if you hear kick drum better as with your speakers ?

measure systems can not trust much. if you sit in the middle of the room is not good often bass range less or higher freq is cancel. you can try easy hear room modes with this testtone generator.


hear also if the test tone is in the middle. click on the place where a 440 is.

View attachment 231799

and here select the tones. now you can hear when you click on the neighbar tone if it sound simular loud as the previous tone. this often help to find and correct room modes. you also need check if the tone come from middle. for this test disable center speaker. much speakers can cause much problems.


View attachment 231800
Although I don't listen to them much, Philips Fidelio X3 headphones. I don't sit in the middle of the room. 5' is 1/4 off the rear wall.
 
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Rjharle

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The listeners ears could be part of the issue as well.

But look. Old recordings were made on tape with very few tracks available. They didn't have enough tracks to dedicate a mic to the kick drum all by itself. Drums were miked with very few mics. Google the "Glyn Johns drum mic technique" some time. So sometimes the kick got lost. It's OK. Nobody died.
Well let's blame my ears, media, equipment, sitting position. Anything but admit that sound engineers are mass marketing a product that is substandard.
 

Ricardus

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Well let's blame my ears, media, equipment, sitting position. Anything but admit that sound engineers are mass marketing a product that is substandard.
You say it's substandard yet the rest of the world seems relatively happy, so maybe the product is fine.

But this whole "blame the market for recordings you think suck" is right out of Paul M's playbook when he wants to sell you something.

The mass market makes plenty of good recordings all the time.

So, at the risk of saying something impertinent, yeah, maybe it's you. When someone keeps insisting everything else is wrong and not them, it's a sure fire sign of narcissism.

Another thing I saw a few times in this thread was people just willy nilly blaming "compression." Before they do that, I would love them to accurately explain what it is, and how it's used.
 

bennybbbx

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Although I don't listen to them much, Philips Fidelio X3 headphones. I don't sit in the middle of the room. 5' is 1/4 off the rear wall.

the philips fidelo x3 curve is in tonbooster morphit headphone correction. you have luck, it is in the bass range very neutral so you can compare this with speakers. i always do when a song sound worse compare it in headphone . so it is s a good way to detect problems of speakers imn the bass and lower mid range. did you hear no kick on this headphones too ? IMPORTANT. you need see the curve invert. this is the correction curve i post. so there is a gap at 2.5 khz

philps fidelio x3.jpg
 
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Rjharle

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You say it's substandard yet the rest of the world seems relatively happy, so maybe the product is fine.

But this whole "blame the market for recordings you think suck" is right out of Paul M's playbook when he wants to sell you something.

The mass market makes plenty of good recordings all the time.

So, at the risk of saying something impertinent, yeah, maybe it's you. When someone keeps insisting everything else is wrong and not them, it's a sure fire sign of narcissism.

Another thing I saw a few times in this thread was people just willy nilly blaming "compression." Before they do that, I would love them to accurately explain what it is, and how it's used.
Most of the mass market never listens to music; they just hear it. If it keeps their head thumping, they are happy.

I have no idea who Paul M is. I didn't know you also had a degree is Psychiatry, but if your diagnoses it any indication of your mixing then ... yes it is you.

I never blamed everything else, I think you and your colleagues calmed it was my ears, equipment where I sat etc. Not only that, but I insisted it was the engineers.

Yes, the mass market does have soon very good recordings. Are you responsible for any of them?
 

Ricardus

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Most of the mass market never listens to music; they just hear it. If it keeps their head thumping, they are happy.
Geez, that's not condescending and narcissistic AT ALL. You hear and listen better than most people.
 
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Rjharle

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You do understand that the drummer may not actually be trying to kick a hole through his drum skin just for your amusement?

The kick drum is part of a whole instrument that in turm is an integral part of a band/musical ensemble hopefully playing together toward some higher artistic goal. That may mean the kick is played loudly or softly depending on artistic choice/vision ...
Not looking for holes. Just an accurate representation of the kit. I have found that Sina's drum cover seem to bring out all aspects of the drums in a song without over powering the rest of the artists. Check her out on YouTube.

I'm sure many will have much to say about her representations.
 

SKBubba

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Listen to When the Levee Breaks or In My Time of Dying and get back to us.
 
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Rjharle

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Listen to When the Levee Breaks or In My Time of Dying and get back to us.
I was back to you in 1975 Led's 5th or 6th album. When sound engineering was an art.

Is this something you are responsible for ?

You mixed for Led Zeppelin ?

You worked for Frederick Jay Rubin ?
 

SKBubba

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I was back to you in 1975 Led's 5th or 6th album. When sound engineering was an art.

Is this something you are responsible for ?

You mixed for Led Zeppelin ?

You worked for Frederick Jay Rubin ?

I don't understand the question or the point of it.
 

DjBonoBobo

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:facepalm:
 
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Rjharle

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I don't understand the question or the point of it.
Let me be clearer. I was listening to Led Zeppelin in 75, so I'm getting back to you.

I'm also asking if you or your colleagues had anything to do with that music, or are you just showing me your fine taste in music?
 
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