Where is the "Kick Bass Drum" ?

[Ricardus]

Well to start, the artist doesn't hear all the possible cuts, only the one the engineer presents as the final cut. Then the engineer will go through the limitations and how many samples he/she tried. (with a little sweat on the brow) Next, the manger tells the artist how great the sound is and this is just what we are looking for (crossing his/her fingers). The artist then (if interested) gives the nod. As long that music has a good beat, that they can take their clothes off to ...... it's a go. IMHO, most artist don't know much about sound mixing or care. The sound engineer should be wearing the big boy pants and present the best possible representation of the art and insists that go to market.

Have you ever been in the studio? Because this doesn't represent any reality I have witnessed as a studio engineer these last 25 years.

 

[MarnixM]

When I understand the "kick Bass Drum" well; you should try the Yuri Honing Trio with "Waking on the Moon" from the album "Live at the Pizza Express Jazz Club, London,UK" The track is also available on the Manger test album. The "punch" on the drums is awesome.

 

[LightninBoy]

It wouldn't be fair to play a YouTube tune for comparison. I tried to attach My Girl by the Temptations, but it won't work.

That would be another like Fortunate Son by Creedance, and Dreams by Fleetwood Mac

Why wouldn't it be fair to play youtube comparisons?

In my system ...

My Girl: recorded in 1964. No kick drum audible, but that's hardly the only thing wrong with this 1964 recording. Production is garbage.

Fortunate Son: recorded in 1969. Kick drum is clearly audible. Not prominent in mix, but audible.

Dreams: recorded in 1977. Stellar production. Bass guitar rides over the kick drum for most of the song. If you listen closely you can hear some kick drum pop behind the bass notes. Kick can be clearly heard when the bass line deviates (e.g. around the 1:44 mark)

 

[Puddingbuks]

Nice live kick bass drum:

 

[bennybbbx]

Here are a couple of tunes with good kick bass.
P.S. Sina is a 14-year-old lady who can really play cover - check her out on youtube.

the spectrogram is kick drum from Slash // Bad Rain (OFFICIAL VIDEO) that is show at beginning . did you hear too no kick drum ? . what speaker or headphone you have ?. on a laptop or phone you can not hear the kick drum much (only beater click) because frequency range of phone or laptop is only 150 hz and higher. you mean sina drums . yes she do good mixes, the snare is 1-2 db louder as the kick drum. so can boost the kick a little. here is drum only of a 56 hz tuned base drum. this have much punch is drums only you need play at 2 min. did you hear kick drum ?

 

[Rjharle]

Interesting to read the wish that artist’s creativity should be honoured while thinking that artists either don’t care or relinquish their controls to others.

I think you misread the post. Ultimately, control and the end product should come down to the person who understands the content the best. If it needs fixing, the engineer should repair the performance and capture the presentation as close as possible.

 

[Rjharle]

the spectrogram is kick drum from Slash // Bad Rain (OFFICIAL VIDEO) that is show at beginning . did you hear too no kick drum ? . what speaker or headphone you have ?. on a laptop or phone you can not hear the kick drum much (only beater click) because frequency range of phone or laptop is only 150 hz and higher. you mean sina drums . yes she do good mixes, the snare is 1-2 db louder as the kick drum. so can boost the kick a little. here is drum only of a 56 hz tuned base drum. this have much punch is drums only you need play at 2 min. did you hear kick drum ?

I don't think I have a problem reproducing music in any format.
The equipment is as follows:
Samsung QN85QN90AAFXZA 85"
Anthem MRX 720, Anthem PVA-7
Raga PL3 with a Tang Spinner,
Rage Exact Cartridge
Raga Fono MC Phono Stage,
Nakimachie 680ZX
DBX Model 224, DBX Model 503
Panasonic DP-UB820
Nvidia Shield TV Pro
Korg DS-DAC-10R
Matrix Elemental I
Zidoo Z10 Pro
Focal Aria 936, CC900, (4) 906
Klipsch (4) CDT-5200-CII
SVS (2) SB-13 Ultra
Pro-Ject - VC-S2 ALU with 45 Arm
Monster HTS1650

Room size: 21' X 13' X 8' equipment staged on the narrow wall.

 

[Ricardus]

But with modern recording tools and digital techniques there should be no reason not to be able to get the kick drum to be audible and articulate.

 

[bennybbbx]

Why wouldn't it be fair to play youtube comparisons?

In my system ...

My Girl: recorded in 1964. No kick drum audible, but that's hardly the only thing wrong with this 1964 recording. Production is garbage.

Fortunate Son: recorded in 1969. Kick drum is clearly audible. Not prominent in mix, but audible.

Dreams: recorded in 1977. Stellar production. Bass guitar rides over the kick drum for most of the song. If you listen closely you can hear some kick drum pop behind the bass notes. Kick can be clearly heard when the bass line deviates (e.g. around the 1:44 mark)

this a 1964 version and kick drum is high tuned and good hearable. drums and bass come only from right side

in the past many used ludwig drumkit. you can hear in this video how this drumkit sound at 1:27 you hear kick drum

 

[Rjharle]

Why wouldn't it be fair to play youtube comparisons?

In my system ...

My Girl: recorded in 1964. No kick drum audible, but that's hardly the only thing wrong with this 1964 recording. Production is garbage.

Fortunate Son: recorded in 1969. Kick drum is clearly audible. Not prominent in mix, but audible.

Dreams: recorded in 1977. Stellar production. Bass guitar rides over the kick drum for most of the song. If you listen closely you can hear some kick drum pop behind the bass notes. Kick can be clearly heard when the bass line deviates (e.g. around the 1:44 mark)

I think you need to update your music. The kick drum should be just as prominent as the rest of the instruments. Do you think the drummer is ok with his/her contribution to the performance being deleted or pushed to the background?

You never know what was posted as music on YouTube.

Hitsville The Making Of Motown (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack Deluxe) [192kHz · 24bit]

The Complete Creedence Clearwater Revival Studio Albums [192kHz · 24bit]

Fleetwood Mac Live [192kHz · 24bit]

 

[DJBonoBobo]

@Rjharle
It would be interesting to see a measurement of your listening position.

 

[Ricardus]

@Rjharle
It would be interesting to see a measurement of your listening position.

The listeners ears could be part of the issue as well.

But look. Old recordings were made on tape with very few tracks available. They didn't have enough tracks to dedicate a mic to the kick drum all by itself. Drums were miked with very few mics. Google the "Glyn Johns drum mic technique" some time. So sometimes the kick got lost. It's OK. Nobody died.

 

[Ricardus]

"" Where is the 'Kick Bass Drum' ? ""​

It's usually in the front middle of the kit under the tom toms.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Rjharle]

@Rjharle
It would be interesting to see a measurement of your listening position.

My usual spot is about 5' off the back wall, center room. The room has been corrected with ARC Genesis from Anthem (7.2.4 and 2). But, next week or so I'll be decoupling the room and making it soundproof; starting all over again.

 

[Rjharle]

The listeners ears could be part of the issue as well.

But look. Old recordings were made on tape with very few tracks available. They didn't have enough tracks to dedicate a mic to the kick drum all by itself. Drums were miked with very few mics. Google the "Glyn Johns drum mic technique" some time. So sometimes the kick got lost. It's OK. Nobody died.

Nobody may have died, but I know myself and the drummer are not happy.

 

[Soundstage]

Some distinguished replies mention a potential masking effect of the bass. How could the bass guitar mask a sound meaningfully louder like the kick drum?
Whenever I attend a live performance the kick drum is present and that is not the case on some modern records because of the compression.

 

[Ricardus]

Some distinguished replies mention a potential masking effect of the bass. How could the bass guitar mask a sound meaningfully louder like the kick drum?
Whenever I attend a live performance the kick drum is present and that is not the case on some modern records because of the compression.

They share certain frequencies. Low ones. The mix gets clogged up at those frequencies and there is no being able to tell one distinct instrument from the other.

And why is the kick drum louder than the bass? My meters say different.

Now, in the studio we use tricks to make the kick come through in a mix. The snap of the beater at around 4 or 5K can be accentuated and then the brain fills in the rest without you even realizing it. You just hear the kick drum.

 

[Inner Space]

Nobody may have died, but I know myself and the drummer are not happy.

First rule of band membership - no one cares if the drummer is happy.

Whenever I attend a live performance the kick drum is present and that is not the case on some modern records because of the compression.

Depending on the size of the gig, the kick might have a separate subwoofer array with tens of thousands of watts, as opposed to domestic systems with marginal LF capability.

 

[Ricardus]

Nobody may have died, but I know myself and the drummer are not happy.

We're on an evidence based web site, so I will need links to all of the unhappy drummers.

 

[bluefuzz]

My Girl by the Temptations, Fortunate Son by Creedance, and Dreams by Fleetwood Mac

Fortunate Son: The drums are mixed as single instrument rather than separately as was the custom in the 60s. The bass drum is clearly audible but not high in the mix but still obviously there.

Dreams: Kick drum is pretty high in the mix - very clear although its not a disco track, obviously! If you can't hear it then you need better speakers/headphones ...

My Girl: The bass is quite high in the mix (especially for the time) and masks the kick drum. Again, the drums are mic'ed as a single instrument and sounds natural to me. That's what real drums in a room sound like! It's an artistic choice and typical for the period that the kick isn't louder.