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Where is the "Kick Bass Drum" ?

SKBubba

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Let me be clearer. I was listening to Led Zeppelin in 75, so I'm getting back to you.

I'm also asking if you or your colleagues had anything to do with that music, or are you just showing me your fine taste in music?
And I was simply asking if you can hear the kick bass on those recordings. Not sure why I need credentials to simply ask a question as to what you hear. But you do you. Good day and good luck!
 

krabapple

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When I listen to music, I enjoy the detail in the presentation the most. To be able to distinguish between clapping and finger snapping, electric or acoustic guitar, different horns and drums just allows me to appreciate the musicians/artists so much more. Don't misunderstand me, I do enjoy all the other aspects of the music; ambiance, spread, placement etc. But definition/detail is what I enjoy the most, which leads me to ask this question of the forum:

Where is the "Kick Bass Drum" ?

I do hear it in some Hi Rez recording (192hz/24bit and above) but almost all the music I listen to doesn't have the kick bass drum audio able. I know it is there because it is a intracal part of the timing of the piece.

Why is it removed?

er...what?

Hi rez has nothing to do with capturing kick drum. Whatever lack you hear , is due to recording and mixing choices, and/or some deficit in bass reproduction in your system .

THe way human hearing works, bass frequencies drop off drastically as playback level goes down. THe kick drum bass will be weak at low level playback if you don't have some reinforcement --subwoofers, and some sort of loudness compensation. Otherwise you need to play stuff LOUD.

Kick drum, btw, is a combination of low bass and some overtones that give it 'punch'.
 

krabapple

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This and some of the other responses have shown that including or not including the kick bass in a musical piece is a matter of choice and the skill of the sound engineer; because in some genres it is quite common, while others it is totally absent. Let's put aside most of the discussion that pertains to listener equipment, environment and genre. It is possible to some degree to include the kick bass in all genres of music, so the listener can at least hear the kick bass setting the timing of the musical piece. So why I'm I and others still looking for the kick bass?

I think IMHO it comes down to today's market; there is no place for it. Today music is relegated to a chip, storage, mobility of the cell phone and ear buds. Markets cannot afford to include wide dynamic range in their music because it would harm the user's ears (we all know where that would go). So it would seem that that policy sits fine with the engineers because it is difficult to produce the kick bass anyway.

So folks like me who are looking for a complete musical presentation will just have to settle for what we get :(

As long as you have music, you will never be alone :)

These generalizations are ridiculous. Please stop.
 
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Rjharle

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Right. A Chinese copy of Rega? Raga, Rage? And Nakimachie is hilarious.
Are you sure you are a master contributor? If you are, you don't know jack about turntables. The PL3 was purchased at a very reputable audio outlet. The spinner is a hand made upgrade to the spindle. $285.00 from Japan. The Nakimachie 680 ZX was purchased in the 80s and is still a renowned cassette player (look it up). I play my recorded cassettes on it that still sound great.
 

krabapple

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My usual spot is about 5' off the back wall, center room. The room has been corrected with ARC Genesis from Anthem (7.2.4 and 2). But, next week or so I'll be decoupling the room and making it soundproof; starting all over again.

The *center* of a room is often a terrible place to put a listening seat, from a room mode perspective. So hopefully you don't mean that.

We can;t know what 5' from back means really unless we know the room dimensions. But either way it seems you are complaining about recordings not being exactly the way *you* want them to be. Good luck with that.
 

Chrispy

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Are you sure you are a master contributor? If you are, you don't know jack about turntables. The PL3 was purchased at a very reputable audio outlet. The spinner is a hand made upgrade to the spindle. $285.00 from Japan. The Nakimachie 680 ZX was purchased in the 80s and is still a renowned cassette player (look it up). I play my recorded cassettes on it that still sound great.

He's teasing you about the misspelling of the brands Rega and Nakamichi....I'm sure kick drummers around the world are glad for your battling for them :) Some band members just don't get prominence in recordings....
 
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Rjharle

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And I was simply asking if you can hear the kick bass on those recordings. Not sure why I need credentials to simply ask a question as to what you hear. But you do you. Good day and good luck!
Later:)
 

krabapple

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Some distinguished replies mention a potential masking effect of the bass. How could the bass guitar mask a sound meaningfully louder like the kick drum?
Whenever I attend a live performance the kick drum is present and that is not the case on some modern records because of the compression.

Dynamic range compression can actually make the kick drum * more* present in a mix you hear at home.
 
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Rjharle

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The *center* of a room is often a terrible place to put a listening seat, from a room mode perspective. So hopefully you don't mean that.

We can;t know what 5' from back means really unless we know the room dimensions. But either way it seems you are complaining about recordings not being exactly the way *you* want them to be. Good luck with that.
The room was size was posted 21' X 13' X8' the equipment is on the 13' wall and I sit 5' from the back wall.

P.S. I did correct the Hi Rez because it, was just to say I hear more detail.
 

krabapple

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Fortunate Son: The drums are mixed as single instrument rather than separately as was the custom in the 60s. The bass drum is clearly audible but not high in the mix but still obviously there.

Dreams: Kick drum is pretty high in the mix - very clear although its not a disco track, obviously! If you can't hear it then you need better speakers/headphones ...

Yeah I don't know WTF he's talking about on this one. The bass guitar and kick drum are totally locked in on Dreams and it's hard NOT to hear them as a unit, as they were intended to be.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

The kick drum is quite prominent in this album. In particular this cut

I became aware of it after several month to tune and integrate the subwoofers in my system. It is easily heard on headphones but is heard clearly and felt, with a system with good bass reproduction.

Peace
 
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BDWoody

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Are you sure you are a master contributor? If you are, you don't know jack about turntables.

You need to dial it way back and develop a bit more self-awareness I'm thinkin'.

I little breather may be in order.
 

kongwee

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Just get one lesson drum playing, you know where the kick drum is and feel the bass.
 

Eetu

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I don't understand this thread. Probably 80-90% of pop & rock has traditional drum kit kick drum OR other percussion acting as bass drum OR synth / drum machine kicks.

Perhaps this is what the OP means, that a synth drum may not have the upper harmonics of the traditional drum kit kick drum?
 

Mnyb

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I don't understand this thread. Probably 80-90% of pop & rock has traditional drum kit kick drum OR other percussion acting as bass drum OR synth / drum machine kicks.

Perhaps this is what the OP means, that a synth drum may not have the upper harmonics of the traditional drum kit kick drum?

But's unnaturally lame in many mixes :) even if its there , it should twack you more in the chest .

Btw i do like John Bonham drumming in "When the Levee Breaks" :)
 
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