What's Left In Speaker Design To Reduce Distortion/Increase Detail Retrieval?

[IPunchCholla]

I was tempted to comment the 'Fast Car', held to be "Boy, nearly as good as white noise!", while I'm sorry for Tracy. She was hooked up in full fleshed falsehood. Fleeing American reality using its icon, the fast car despite common speed limit. Black sarcasm?

If you've not got a sense for all the simplistic, gross studio tricks used here, what are you after to tell me?

You see, I process the 'details'. Even then when the record was issued, which is a long time back. The understanding is in my mind, not the brain does this and that, or the hearing apparatus mechanically forces me to believe something else. Please look up the difference between signal, message, information and meaning. I live with this since the age of 12, and I'm not Sheldon Cooper.

If you don't address me anymore, I'll leave this alone.

Given your inability to answer simple questions directly, I think I have to finally concede you are either trolling, or are one of those people who when everyone around them is nonplussed at their comments, says “everyone here is dumb” rather than looking to themselves as the issue. So I will finally join the ranks of those who ignore you.

 

[MAB]

If you don't address me anymore, I'll leave this alone.

Why don't you just show yourself out.
You do this too often. You don't contribute. You confuse. You allude to your vast knowledge and experience, apparently acquired at a much earlier age than the rest of us. You offer no data or evidence of that knowledge. You denigrate other members who don't follow your anecdotes and confused train of thought. Your posts are typically off-topic, as if you just want us to know how smart you are but have no actual interest in the OP's topic. And of course you resist and fight when other members call you out.
You really come off as a jerk. I've said this before and I see that you are consistent.

 

[Travis]

I was tempted to comment the 'Fast Car', held to be "Boy, nearly as good as white noise!", while I'm sorry for Tracy. She was hooked up in full fleshed falsehood. Fleeing American reality using its icon, the fast car despite common speed limit. Black sarcasm?

If you've not got a sense for all the simplistic, gross studio tricks used here, what are you after to tell me?

You see, I process the 'details'. Even then when the record was issued, which is a long time back. The understanding is in my mind, not the brain does this and that, or the hearing apparatus mechanically forces me to believe something else. Please look up the difference between signal, message, information and meaning. I live with this since the age of 12, and I'm not Sheldon Cooper.

If you don't address me anymore, I'll leave this alone.

Maybe Latin: Res ipsa loquitor

You are completely in the wrong forum unfortunately. I thought it was a language barrier or something else. However, it has become clear the breakdown is because you apparently have excellent long term echoic memory that remains intact for decades where the details are etched in your memory.

Based on what you have put on paper the subtle details, excuse me, nuances of a particular speaker are incapable of being perceived in a manner to determine whether there is a preference using controlled experiments. Again, this is probably due to your long term echoic memory.

You see, I process the 'details'. Even then when the record was issued, which is a long time back. The understanding is in my mind, not the brain does this and that, or the hearing apparatus mechanically forces me to believe something else. Please look up the difference between signal, message, information and meaning.

I have, and what I have tried to explain to you is this thread isn’t involved in signal, message, information and meaning flow (you left several out when it comes to human sound perception). That’s why I mentioned that you could use simple piano notes, or plucked open strings, they could even be tones generated on an oscillator.

I have no doubt that the understanding is in your mind. Probably where you came up with white noise as being relevant.

Given that you have this long term echoic memory your time would be much better spent and more helpful to so many by joining AES, and their Loudspeaker group, where you can interact with speaker designers and engineers, even present papers on the impact of hardware (loudspeaker) - and where it fits in the signal to meaning chain along with where the brain processing line/wall exists.

She was hooked up in full fleshed falsehood. Fleeing American reality using its icon, the fast car despite common speed limit. Black sarcasm?

What does her being black have to do with anything? There is nothing in the lyrics that identify with any race or nationality. It isn’t about American reality, it’s about a universal problem that transcends geography, gender, socioeconomic status, race or religion. Or is that just how your mind works?

If you've not got a sense for all the simplistic, gross studio tricks used here, what are you after to tell me?

Not “after to tell you” anything. I don’t think I, or really anyone here, can tell you anything. I Was trying to point out to you, as simply as possible (because of what I thought was a language barrier) the reason there was a breakdown in communication between you and others earlier in this thread. It’s clear I oversimplified it given your knowledge and abilities. I apologize for that if it has upset you, and I think it has.

If you don't address me anymore, I'll leave this alone.

I could care less what you do. However, I have learned a lot about you from your responses in this thread. (Note, “about you” not “from you” there is a big difference).

This thread is about the physiological detection of detail.
Not the psychological assessment of detail.

I appreciate the additional explanation you tried to give. That’s exactly what I was trying to point out. However, I think given his long term echoic memory abilities he is probably incapable of drawing that very eloquent distinction (short and simple too). The details are in his mind from first listening, and no changes in a transducer/loudspeaker will change of his assessment.

I guess people like that would have to be extremely careful on where they are, and on what speakers you listen to a song for the first time?

 

[Travis]

Any good reads on the history of audio transducer designs? I was looking at the Purifi page and they characterize creating long throw low distortion drivers as revolutionary, which seems incremental to me, but without some knowledge of the history it is hard to say.

Yes, I will dig some stuff up for you. The papers go from Bell Labs, WE drivers, RCA (Harry Olson), Lansing, etc.

 

[fineMen]

Maybe Latin: Res ipsa loquitor

You are completely in the wrong forum unfortunately.

w/t/f, this thread is about MattHooper's subjectivism (again!!) and you want to lead me out. Effing

 

[MattHooper]

w/t/f, this thread is about MattHooper's subjectivism (again!!) and you want to lead me out. Effing

No it's not. You still don't understand this thread, despite the point being made to you many times, by different members?

What can we do but despair of conversation at this point?

 

[MAB]

w/t/f, this thread is about MattHooper's subjectivism (again!!) and you want to lead me out. Effing

Stop. The comments about your behavior are directed at you, leave other members out of it.

You keep suggesting that you are going to leave this conversation, and we are all encouraging you to do so ASAP.
Your behavior is nothing new, your main goal at ASR seems to be to kill all conversation with your trolling.

 

[MAB]

I was tempted to comment the 'Fast Car', held to be "Boy, nearly as good as white noise!", while I'm sorry for Tracy. She was hooked up in full fleshed falsehood. Fleeing American reality using its icon, the fast car despite common speed limit. Black sarcasm?

I can't tell you how much this comment reveals about you.

 

[AdamG]

I was tempted to comment the 'Fast Car', held to be "Boy, nearly as good as white noise!", while I'm sorry for Tracy. She was hooked up in full fleshed falsehood. Fleeing American reality using its icon, the fast car despite common speed limit. Black sarcasm?

If you've not got a sense for all the simplistic, gross studio tricks used here, what are you after to tell me?

You see, I process the 'details'. Even then when the record was issued, which is a long time back. The understanding is in my mind, not the brain does this and that, or the hearing apparatus mechanically forces me to believe something else. Please look up the difference between signal, message, information and meaning. I live with this since the age of 12, and I'm not Sheldon Cooper.

If you don't address me anymore, I'll leave this alone.

Your posts are incoherent and borderline racist. You seem to bring confrontational energy in every thread you participate. Stop and reexamine your attitude and goals of being a member here. I’m giving you a well earned thread ban and if you keep this up it will be escalated to a Full Forum Ban.

 

[garyrc]

I have bolded excerpts of gnarly's post that I heartily agree with (please expand the quote section):

I don't really know the specific differences between Doppler distortion, amplitude modulation distortion, and frequency modulation distortion etc.
And honestly don't much care, other than knowing which type of measurement should go with which, and more importantly which type measures in a way that correlates with my perception.

I simply hear/know that when a driver has less excursion modulating higher frequencies within its bandwidth, the higher frequencies audibly clean up some.
Concomitantly, I know logically when a driver's passband is narrowed, the degree the lower end of the passband can modulate the upper end, gets reduced.

And is why I'm into active multi-way speakers. Because I DO hear more detail with them as I work on reducing those two producers of modulation. ....lower end excursion and drivers' bandwidths.

Modulation distortion is considered more noxious than THD. Few manufacturers and few reviewers mention it, but some (Heyser, Keele) have.

Klipsch compared two of its 3-way speakers in which the modulation distortion of one was three times that of the other, with the more distorting speaker measured at lower SPL.. The two speakers (at the time) had all identical drivers. The difference was basically excursion, due to loading. The Klipschorn had 1% modulation distortion, measured at 100 dB and was fully horn loaded, including the woofer. The Cornwall had 3% modulation distortion at only 90 dB, and had a bass reflex enclosure, with greater woofer excursion, and a somewhat shorter midrange horn with the same driver.

Heard repeatedly in the same room (at Joe Minor'a Berkeley Custom Electronics) the Klipschorn sounded cleaner, especially in the bass, and more detailed, airier and as a friend said, "more free floating." A few years later (with no changes in the speakers) the experience was repeated at Oakland's Pro Audio Electronics.

Some people seek nearly floor to ceiling horn loaded subwoofers, because they tend to sound cleaner.

Paul Klipsch with Joe Minor and Arthur Fiedler

 

[Pudik]

yes thanks

Ur welcome

 

[Travis]

Edit: I responded to someone who I just after I posted had been issued a thread ban. The Moderator covered everything, nothing for me to add.

 

[Travis]

Some people seek nearly floor to ceiling horn loaded subwoofers, because they tend to sound cleaner.

To me they sound more natural, however, that could be a function of being cleaner. But technology moves forward and they no longer need to be that big (assuming 17-18 hZ @-3 dB is acceptable).

 

[DDgtt]

The most effective technology in reducing distortion and increasing detail retrieval is found in a technology created by Laurence Dickie known as the "exponential tapered tube absorber." The acoustic environment behind a driver diaphragm is subject to a great deal of reflections within the enclosure causing a great deal of unwanted resonance. The tapered tube gives you a resonant free environment which eliminates coloration and increases transparency and clarity.

 

[teashea]

There are different methods. But the DSP aspects of the Neumann KH150 and KH120 II are unsurpassed.

 

[dweeeeb2]

The most effective technology in reducing distortion and increasing detail retrieval is found in a technology created by Laurence Dickie known as the "exponential tapered tube absorber." The acoustic environment behind a driver diaphragm is subject to a great deal of reflections within the enclosure causing a great deal of unwanted resonance. The tapered tube gives you a resonant free environment which eliminates coloration and increases transparency and clarity.

Why isn’t it used more often?

 

[DDgtt]

I suspect it's because of a patent or similarly guarded technological reason. But the concept works so well. And in combination with other technologies like isolating the drivers from the cabinet, the resulting performance is really something special.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I suspect it's because of a patent or similarly guarded technological reason. But the concept works so well. And in combination with other technologies like isolating the drivers from the cabinet, the resulting performance is really something special.

Does the exponential part simply allow for a shorter version of the transmission line?

 

[DDgtt]

It's really a very different concept from transmission line loading. It's used for all drivers including tweeters. It deals more with resonance absorption. The exponential part is the shape of the tapered tube which has absorptive material pulled into it.

 

[DDgtt]

There are several great videos on YouTube that have Laurence Dickie describing the technology.