What makes a center speaker "project" sound away from the enclosure better than others. Can we tell from measurements?

[GabrielPhoto]

Hi!
As I have been testing many center speakers, one of the things I want for my sound is a center that more easily fools my brain into thinking the sound is coming from the screen and not calling attention to the enclosure.
For instance the Emotiva C2+ I felt it was painfully easy to tell where the sound was coming from. On the other hand, the Monolith THX 365c is much better sounding more around it than from the box itself.

I was looking at some of the measurements and I wonder...does the fact that the C2+ shows so little sound behind it plays into this or are there some other factors?

 

[abdo123]

That's a very difficult question to answer. For me it's usually about how immersed i am in the content.

Ofcourse for me to be immersed both the content itself and speaker has to be good. So i think the C2+ just didn't sound good and it kept disrupting your immersion.

Have you tried any other center speakers?

 

[Haint]

The difference is likely in the frontal horizontal and (in the context of centers) vertical dispersion, not behind it. The C2+ is a terrible center design with a very narrow "spray", probably producing a very mono point source sound that is easily located aurally. A wider "spray" will introduce more and louder reflections, sound more diffuse, and be more difficult to locate which is evidently easier to fool our brain. IME narrow dispersion speakers sound terrible as centers given how many dialog tracks are dry sound booth recordings with no reverb or ambiance added whatsoever.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

The difference is likely in the frontal horizontal and (in the context of centers) vertical dispersion, not behind it. The C2+ is a terrible center design with a very narrow "spray", probably producing a very mono point source sound that is easily located aurally. A wider "spray" will introduce more and louder reflections, sound more diffuse, and be more difficult to locate which is evidently easier to fool our brain.

Yes that is another thing about the Monolith..it has a wider soundstage than most centers I have been testing which likely as you said, is one of the key factors..that wider spray. Yes the C2+ is extremely "mono" sounding. The moment I moved to the left or right chair, the sound couldnt be more directional.
The Elac UC52 was pretty good too. The Paradigm 600c was not bad. The Klipsch 504c and RC64 iii were about equal..not great to my ears.
That is why so far I am keeping the Monolith. The SVS Center Ultra arrives today...that is my last one to test. I thought about the KEF R2C but I dont like having to crossover so high on that one as my subs are very close behind my seating.

I am still considering way to place a center or matching tower to my JBL 590s behind the screen

 

[sucramhabib]

Yes that is another thing about the Monolith..it has a wider soundstage than most centers I have been testing which likely as you said, is one of the key factors..that wider spray. Yes the C2+ is extremely "mono" sounding. The moment I moved to the left or right chair, the sound couldnt be more directional.
The Elac UC52 was pretty good too. The Paradigm 600c was not bad. The Klipsch 504c and RC64 iii were about equal..not great to my ears.
That is why so far I am keeping the Monolith. The SVS Center Ultra arrives today...that is my last one to test. I thought about the KEF R2C but I dont like having to crossover so high on that one as my subs are very close behind my seating.

I am still considering way to place a center or matching tower to my JBL 590s behind the screen

I have the Monolith towers (465T) and the C2+. I’ve also owned the JBL 520C and Infinity RC63. To me the C2+ is the best of that bunch. With that said, I agree, the C2+ does call attention to itself in that you know exactly where the sound is coming from (which can be a little distracting). The sound stage is not seamless. This is the one aspect I do not like about it. I have not tried the Monolith 365 but am tempted to do so.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

I have the Monolith towers (465T) and the C2+. I’ve also owned the JBL 520C and Infinity RC63. To me the C2+ is the best of that bunch. With that said, I agree, the C2+ does call attention to itself in that you know exactly where the sound is coming from (which can be a little distracting). The sound stage is not seamless. This is the one aspect I do not like about it. I have not tried the Monolith 365 but am tempted to do so.

I have not tried the RC63 but yeah I can see the C2+ besting the 520c as that one was sounds puny and is not really any better at anything than the C2+ while lacking the beefier sound of the C2+. Depending on your setup, I would give the Monolith a try. If you get it via Target, it is a free return to the store as well.
I can tell you, for me it is night and day. Even my wife could tell where she normally does not care much about such things lol

 

[cnitty]

Yes that is another thing about the Monolith..it has a wider soundstage than most centers I have been testing which likely as you said, is one of the key factors..that wider spray. Yes the C2+ is extremely "mono" sounding. The moment I moved to the left or right chair, the sound couldnt be more directional.
The Elac UC52 was pretty good too. The Paradigm 600c was not bad. The Klipsch 504c and RC64 iii were about equal..not great to my ears.
That is why so far I am keeping the Monolith. The SVS Center Ultra arrives today...that is my last one to test. I thought about the KEF R2C but I dont like having to crossover so high on that one as my subs are very close behind my seating.

I am still considering way to place a center or matching tower to my JBL 590s behind the screen

Which center was a better match SVS Ultra or Monolith?

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Which center was a better match SVS Ultra or Monolith?

For my ears, the Monolith was. My final comparison of over 10 options, I picked the C208 as my favorite, the RC263 second (or first depending on your preference I feel the timbre match of the RC263 was the closest to the 590) and Monolith 3rd.

 

[cnitty]

For my ears, the Monolith was. My final comparison of over 10 options, I picked the C208 as my favorite, the RC263 second (or first depending on your preference I feel the timbre match of the RC263 was the closest to the 590) and Monolith 3rd.

Thanks hate I can't find the RC263 anymore.
I can purchase a Ultra locally @ $500 but wanted the best match to the 590's I can get.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Thanks hate I can't find the RC263 anymore.
I can purchase a Ultra locally @ $500 but wanted the best match to the 590's I can get.

Thats not a bad price. You may prefer the Ultra over the Monolith as we are all different. What I liked the most about the Monolith was that it as nice "ventriloquist" effect so vocals project nicely away from the enclosure. I hate centers that are constantly reminding you where the sound is coming from.

 

[cnitty]

Thats not a bad price. You may prefer the Ultra over the Monolith as we are all different. What I liked the most about the Monolith was that it as nice "ventriloquist" effect so vocals project nicely away from the enclosure. I hate centers that are constantly reminding you where the sound is coming from.

I feel the same.
Like to be enveloped in sound.

 

[Wseaton]

Don't use a monolithic center. Movie theaters don't do this. Why should You?

I solved this problem eos ago and many of my friends utilize it with very high set ups. A single center speaker artificially localizes center channel information. INSTEAD Use two satellites on either side of the screen. Connect them in series. Done. You have to turn up your center a bit, but it works great. No, there is no phase cancelation nonsense. Drivers have to be located very close together for phase cancelation to be an issue.

This trick creates a spacious and enveloping center channel that seamlessly integrates with your mains. It also works with any AV receiver with a single channel out.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Don't use a monolithic center. Movie theaters don't do this. Why should You?

I solved this problem eos ago and many of my friends utilize it with very high set ups. A single center speaker artificially localizes center channel information. INSTEAD Use two satellites on either side of the screen. Connect them in series. Done. You have to turn up your center a bit, but it works great. No, there is no phase cancelation nonsense. Drivers have to be located very close together for phase cancelation to be an issue.

This trick creates a spacious and enveloping center channel that seamlessly integrates with your mains. It also works with any AV receiver with a single channel out.

I have some issues with this. For example..
First, I'm not surprised a theater doesn't use a single center...I mean that is one huge screen compared to what a 10 or 12 feet wide screen at home.
Second, the way movies are mastered for home is with a speaker located in the center not a configuration as you are suggesting. May as well just go with a phantom center when watching on my own at that point.

Would love to see what others think about your configuration. Anyone wants to chime in?

 

[tvih]

The only benefit of doing it that way over a phantom center would be the ability to separately control center channel volume. But really just extra hardware and hassle in my books. Phantom for life