What is your stance on Chinese brand Hi-fi equipment

[Plcamp]

Given that China hosts all the major contract manufacturers in the world, there is only a few products of any brand that are not produced there. The design of those products also includes significant to dominant Chinese engineer’s work.

So if you perceive a difference in quality, it’s probably dues to small design houses (many in China, but not exclusively) and not geography.

 

[Phorize]

You're actively labelling all products manufactured in China as having "poor design" and a "busted-ass aesthetic". Good job dude.

In fairness I think that @restorer-john was more throwing U.K hifi under a bus then, which is fair enough. I'm British and would much rather have a properly featured Denon amp over the overpriced/under featured (hifi press call this 'Spartan' as if that were a virtue) crap that the likes of Sugden produce.

In any event, I predict that not much good will come of this thread!

 

[delta76]

If the question comes off as offensive to anyone, I apologize. However the question is only about Chinese brands like Topping, SMSL, Sabaj etc. They are very popular here, measured great , decent/cheap price but somewhat questionable longevity and warranty process. I am asking the fellow members of this forum on what do they think/plan on the products from those brands.

We don't need to engage in the argument regarding "Made in China" vs elsewhere.

 

[Katji]

oh god, not again!


political post, should have been removed already.

 

[Phorize]

If the question comes off as offensive to anyone, I apologize. However the question is only about Chinese brands like Topping, SMSL, Sabaj etc. They are very popular here, measured great , decent/cheap price but somewhat questionable longevity and warranty process. I am asking the fellow members of this forum on what do they think/plan on the products from those brands.

We don't need to engage in the argument regarding "Made in China" vs elsewhere.

Well, what ever your intentions, the poll refers to Chinese products, not Topping etc. Not your responsibility of course but the resultant discussion was fairly predictable.

 

[Byrdsmaniac]

Customer support and long term reliability matter to me, consequently I'm disinclined to buy products from unestablished brands. Having to ship defective units to China for repair is a deal breaker for me. I don't care how cheap the stuff is, I don't have time for the hassle. And I'm not buying throw away junk of any kind. Ever.

 

[Katji]

It's undeniable that Hifi equipment from Topping, SMSL, Sabaj, Aiyama etc. are very popular here in ASR. The interests seem huge, but I wonder what's the consensus, are they actually popular or just we are led to believe?

As usual, you do not make sense.

First you say it is undeniable that they are popular.
Then you ask whether they are "actually" popular or we are "just led to believe."

WTF!

 

[Katji]

Customer support and long term reliability matter to me, consequently I'm disinclined to buy products from unestablished brands. Having to ship defective units to China for repair is a deal breaker for me. I don't care how cheap the stuff is, I don't have time for the hassle. And I'm not buying throw away junk of any kind. Ever.

I am not buying any American junk, ever. No matter how "well-established" it is. Having to ship to USA costs the same.

They are all linked to the state, the so-called military industrial complex.

Gangster state, like Russia, just more sophisticated.

 

[Koeitje]

If the question comes off as offensive to anyone, I apologize. However the question is only about Chinese brands like Topping, SMSL, Sabaj etc. They are very popular here, measured great , decent/cheap price but somewhat questionable longevity and warranty process. I am asking the fellow members of this forum on what do they think/plan on the products from those brands.

We don't need to engage in the argument regarding "Made in China" vs elsewhere.

Lets make a poll about Denon, Marantz and NAD also? I guess you didn't buy a HDMI 2.1 receiver when they came out. Or that NAD Masters series device that had a clipped subwoofer out that couldn't be fixed with a firmware update? Or what about Emotiva's absolute garbage support.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Customer support and long term reliability matter to me, consequently I'm disinclined to buy products from unestablished brands. Having to ship defective units to China for repair is a deal breaker for me. I don't care how cheap the stuff is, I don't have time for the hassle. And I'm not buying throw away junk of any kind. Ever.

lol...anyone who is shipping a $150 dac to China for repair has lost the plot. On the one or 2 occasions where I've had some issue with a product I've purchased (usually from Amazon) the manufacturer has replaced it basically without hassle and not required me to send the defective unit back. Long term reliability does matter to an extent. But that extent is measured in years not decades. If I buy a dac for $150 (which remember, performs essentially perfectly in a sound quality sense) and it last 4 or 5 years, that's more than enough frankly. There's going to be a new dac available by then that I'll replace it with. I have no desire to drop $1000 on a dac that doesn't sound better just because it might survive for 20 years or more.

 

[JSmith]

Having to ship defective units to China for repair is a deal breaker for me.

I purchase my products from local online or audio retail stores so if there is an issue I return it to them... 'repair, replace, refund'. This is generally more expensive for the same product shipped from overseas, but there is no need to ship items back overseas either if a problem arises. It sounds like your country may not have adequate consumer protections... or there are no local re-sellers of international audio products where you are?


JSmith

 

[Phorize]

Ok, I'm out. How a bit of self moderation people!?!

 

[AdamG]

Tell that to the Chinese state then.

No political content please. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[AdamG]

The reason why USA regime attacks Huawei is not because woo-woo they are spying on us, it is because Huawei 5G technology is better and they are better able to provide suitable and more cost-effective solutions.

Collecting data on people - established long ago that USA state agencies were doing it, with the collaboration of manufacturers.

Facebook is the biggest people data collection project ever. If it was not a CIA project when it began, it is now.

(Of course, that is less likely to be apparent, or obvious, if you have been indoctrinated for several generations.)

You know better. Been here long enough to know we don’t permit political content period. Further violations will not be just waved off.

 

[sergeauckland]

lol...anyone who is shipping a $150 dac to China for repair has lost the plot. On the one or 2 occasions where I've had some issue with a product I've purchased (usually from Amazon) the manufacturer has replaced it basically without hassle and not required me to send the defective unit back. Long term reliability does matter to an extent. But that extent is measured in years not decades. If I buy a dac for $150 (which remember, performs essentially perfectly in a sound quality sense) and it last 4 or 5 years, that's more than enough frankly. There's going to be a new dac available by then that I'll replace it with. I have no desire to drop $1000 on a dac that doesn't sound better just because it might survive for 20 years or more.

I don't see why even a $150 DAC shouldn't last 20+ years. What in a cheap product has a limited lifetime that isn't equally so in an expensive product?
No, if I buy something electronic, at any price, I expect it to work until I no longer want to use it.

S.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I don't see why even a $150 DAC shouldn't last 20+ years. What in a cheap product has a limited lifetime that isn't equally so in an expensive product?
No, if I buy something electronic, at any price, I expect it to work until I no longer want to use it.

S.

yeah, generally I agree. It's a bit of a strawman really the whole longevity thing. It's like a last refuge for people who can no longer base their views on the sound quality (since really it's the SQ that matters most by far for the majority of us). "Damn, this cheap stuff sounds better than my boutique gear! I gotta find some way to validate spending all that cash!" But in a digital device like a dac, I don't think a decades-long life span is even a realistic desire. Technology changes faster than that. In 20 years, we probably aren't even going to be using dacs.

For myself, I definitely do some adjusting of expectations based on cost though. Not just in electronics either. If I buy something for $30 and get 3 years of good use out of it, I'll take that over buying something for $300 that might last 30 years. I can replace the $30 unit a few times and still not hit that $300 expenditure and it's pretty safe to assume there's going to be other options available a decade later anyway...

 

[AdamG]

The original post is political.

Compare with the LGBTQ+ identity post, not political but a collection of bigots conspired to have it closed and then subsequently deleted.

This post has earned you a two week vacation. Enjoy your time off and when you return please stop insulting people and countries.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I don't see why even a $150 DAC shouldn't last 20+ years. What in a cheap product has a limited lifetime that isn't equally so in an expensive product?
No, if I buy something electronic, at any price, I expect it to work until I no longer want to use it.

S.

I am in general computer equipment hardware repair business.
These days it is not uncommon for a two year old laptop to break down, hell even few months old ones break down regularly (I know!).
Yet ten year old laptops, if has been treated well are still going! OK batteries don't, but the rest are mostly OK.
This is not luck.
These days manufacturers Know how to manufacture at min. cost, that lasts the warranty period. If they can save a fraction of a cent here and there, They Do!
It takes a dedicated company, valuing their reliability score to specify components and methods to increase the reliability life. This costs money! those fractions of cents, here and there soon add up to few dollars, and when you make 50000 units or more , it can hurt the bottom line.
There is no doubt some far east manufacturers devices do last, but not all devices that have been trimmed to minimize product cost.
Smaller, western manufacturers, can not compete with far eastern manufacturers on such deep cost cuttings.

 

[JeffS7444]

I'm not real comfortable about PRC's current leadership, but I see that as a separate matter from goods produced there. In any event, the manufacture of audio electronics is pretty globalized, so your "Chinese" components likely contain key parts from companies like Texas Instruments, AKM, ESS and many others, and these are major selling features! We need them, but they also need us!

Been thinking about the Khadas Tone 2 for some time, and am not aware of anything else offering a similar combination of size, performance and features.

 

[Joe Smith]

I use vintage audio equipment, new equipment - it's all good. Very few electronic products made today are going to have the durability of classic audio gear from the 60s and 70s, but that's OK. I am more comfortable buying black boxes that do a thing or two very well and last for ten or so years, than the burn rate of other things, such as cell phones that quickly age out of software capability, or five year old stoves and refrigerators and washing machines that start to crap out and cost more to get repaired than buying new.

(Globally, we just need to find a better way to balance consumer purchasing/GDP growth versus the rapidly-increasing consumer waste stream...a tall order. Just raising awareness around the need to reduce single use plastic is a monumental effort, and that's just one waste element.)