What do floor standers really bring to the table?

[DanielT]

Why should you have speakers that go down to 20 Hz if you do not listen to music that goes down to 20 Hz?.
Or 25Hz, 30, 35Hz? It costs money to dig deep. Isn't it better to spend the money on better speakers that perform better over (25-35 Hz) lowest frequency full registers vs a pair that is only ok as a full register 20-20kHz?

For example:
A pair of Elac Debut Reference DBR-62
(which is definitely more than ok)
US $ 600 plus sub för US $ 1200 which goes down to 20 - 25 Hz (based on the assumption successful integration with the Elac) vs a pair of Revel M106 bookshelf speakers, US $ 2,000?

Why should you have speakers that go over, for example, 15 000 Hz? Although it is a different matter, for a different thread regarding hearing and aging.

By the way, I'm annoyed that I did not buy ten used Peerless SLS 12" which were sold cheaply this summer. While I was counting on how much space they had taken up in my listening room, they were sold.They were sold in 20 minutes. Really cheap. I wanted to spank myself hard then.
Would have been nice in full-range speakers plus subwoofers.

 

[TimoJ]

Because the lowish to mid bass that you feel in the chest is really an impulse from the speakers, if the main part of that frequency is fed to subs in different locations you won't really feel it (unless you are using subs next to the speakers and also firing directly at you, of course).

"Chest slam" is the reason why you need large bass element for the main speakers. If you use small speakers and try to use subs to get similar effect, you would need to use very high crossover and that would otherwise sound bad and you still wouldn't get coherent "slam".

 

[DanielT]

Then there is another aspect. Split the signal. Then, for example, a cheaper powerful amplifier is good (in many cases) enough for the subwoofers. This relieves the full range of speakers and the amplifier that drives them. Less risk of pushing the amplifier into clipping, for example, reduces the risk of distortion of the speakers (if smaller bookshelf speakers are used). Provided that sensible LP-HP filter and sensible sloping filter (what it is now called in English eg 24dB around 80-100 Hz) may exist. Split the signal in the digital domain.

 

[Frgirard]

Why should you have speakers that go down to 20 Hz if you do not listen to music that goes down to 20 Hz?.
Or 25Hz, 30, 35Hz? It costs money to dig deep. Isn't it better to spend the money on better speakers that perform better over (25-35 Hz) lowest frequency full registers vs a pair that is only ok as a full register 20-20kHz?

For example:
A pair of Elac Debut Reference DBR-62
(which is definitely more than ok)
US $ 600 plus sub för US $ 1200 which goes down to 20 - 25 Hz (based on the assumption successful integration with the Elac) vs a pair of Revel M106 bookshelf speakers, US $ 2,000?

Why should you have speakers that go over, for example, 15 000 Hz? Although it is a different matter, for a different thread regarding hearing and aging.

By the way, I'm annoyed that I did not buy ten used Peerless SLS 12" which were sold cheaply this summer. While I was counting on how much space they had taken up in my listening room, they were sold.They were sold in 20 minutes. Really cheap. I wanted to spank myself hard then.
Would have been nice in full-range speakers plus subwoofers.

Why buy expensive speakers with 90 % of the music produced now is bad : the loudness war.

 

[storing]

something must be vibrating for you to feel it

With SPL high enough, parts of your body vibrate, isn't that the whole point?

 

[Pearljam5000]

There's another (somewhat) related question.
Good bookshelf speakers + a sub vs a slightly less good floorstander.
What would be better overall ?

 

[DanielT]

Why buy expensive speakers with 90 % of the music produced now is bad : the loudness war.

Kind and gentle for the amplifier. Sad for the ears.

That's why I sometimes use a CD player. If I can find some nice old CDs at a flea market.

 

[DanielT]

There's another (somewhat) related question.
Good bookshelf speakers + a sub vs a slightly less good floorstander.
What would be better overall ?

Blind test would be fun to read about regarding your issue. Wondering if Floyd Toole performed any?

 

[Ultrasonic]

just try it out. my room has a huge bass boost, so until 9Hz-ish I have clean frequencies

I'm curious whether you have measured the distortion levels? What sort of SPL did you try your 'fingers in ear' test at?



In my own room there is what I'd guess is some sort of structural resonance at just above 10 Hz, as you can see by the ripple in the compression test responses below, which were made at the MLP with an EQ profile I used for movies (subwoofer output only). Waterfall plots show a very long decay at the same frequency. As you'd expect, the distortion levels get pretty high if I push my humble single sub close to its limits!

Here's the corresponding distortion data:

Edit: for context, here is an example measurement without EQ applied:

 

[Chromatischism]

There's another (somewhat) related question.
Good bookshelf speakers + a sub vs a slightly less good floorstander.
What would be better overall ?

Because quality bass makes up such an outsized portion of our subjective enjoyment (a third), the first option would be much better. With the bass dialed in perfectly we can even forgive, or "mask" some of the speaker's flaws.

Also, floor-standing speakers are not guaranteed to have more/better bass. They just can, if the designer wanted to make it so.

 

[DanielT]

Because quality bass makes up such an outsized portion of our subjective enjoyment (a third), the first option would be much better. With the bass dialed in perfectly we can even forgive, or "mask" some of the speaker's flaws.

Also, floor-standing speakers are not guaranteed to have more/better bass. They just can, if the designer wanted to make it so.

Seems sensible, as long as there is a good integration between the Good bookshelf speakers + a sub

 

[dasdoing]

In my case, the vibrations at 2:00 start when the bass roll reaches 25 Hz. It rolls through the walls, floor, everything. The room stops shaking below 15 Hz here.

View attachment 159719

At 2:09 and beyond, the energy is at 35 and 70 Hz:

View attachment 159721

That is the bass that you can feel directly.

and again it makes sense, 70Hz is a strong mode here:

 

[dasdoing]

But you can solve that. This person got enough of the scrxxm massage of his under sofa sub and reinforced the sofa.

that is nice if it works. sub as near as possible is actualy the best you can do. but the vibrations do suck after a few hours

 

[dasdoing]

With SPL high enough, parts of your body vibrate, isn't that the whole point?

lol. that must be a myth. what would be vibrating? the skin? the bones?

 

[PierreV]

lol. that must be a myth. what would be vibrating? the skin? the bones?

Everything.
Start here https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/983715/

 

[dasdoing]

Everything.
Start here https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/983715/

what SPLs are those?

 

[killdozzer]

I still insist, the answer to OP's question should be contained in the difference between these two:

And here's the sum of it:

In the sense that all other differences are removed so we're talking only about the property of floor-standing as the sole difference. Here we could see precisely what towers bring to table.

 

[PierreV]

what SPLs are those?

I am guessing around 100dB - fairly typical for those types of experiments.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/indhealth/43/3/43_3_580/_pdf/-char/en

You can find many papers if interested. A lot of them looking at work place conditions of course.

 

[marcello252]

Big speakers just sound bigger than smaller ones...

I don't agree, it all depends on the design of the entire system (cones, box, crossover etc)

 

[dasdoing]

Here we could see precisely what towers bring to table

volume? that was pretty obvious. though I was surprised the effect on LF extension is that big. is that a ported design?

I am guessing around 100dB - fairly typical for those types of experiments.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/indhealth/43/3/43_3_580/_pdf/-char/en

You can find many papers if interested. A lot of them looking at work place conditions of course.

but that is not realy the bass we are feeling right? the bass that I feel is not air induced, but I feel it on my feet (floor) and in my couch