What do floor standers really bring to the table?

[Chrispy]

Better sound quality

To who?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Better sound quality

That won't float. How would one weigh bass extension vs. midrange/treble clarity? Would such weighting be the same for all listeners? How about other sonic parameters? In other words, better is different for different listeners.

 

[cany89]

Errr, because people have been very happily using speakers that way for decades? It's the concept of using a subwoofer with floorstanding (or even standmount) speakers domestically that it comparitively recent. Modern DSP for integration also makes the proposition much more viable than it used to be.

Sorry for late reply! I guess I used to listen music with speakers like JBL L50, JBL 4349, or more recently JBL 4435! (You should check this out) I know L50s got a colored sound so I’ll pass that but you need to hear 4435. Never heard an effortless and subtle bass like this before. (In a loudspeaker/floorstander) Since than I’m even looking to change my 8 inch dual subs to 12-15s.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

That won't float. How would one weigh bass extension vs. midrange/treble clarity? Would such weighting be the same for all listeners? How about other sonic parameters? In other words, better is different for different listeners.

But in a lot of cases, its just more bass extension because the speaker have bigger cabinet, its just more bass with less distortion..?
Example Spendor A1 and A2

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

The cabinet only helps in bass extension? what about the mid bass kick or the tactile bass?

 

[Chromatischism]

So many bookshelf speakers are ported, which just produces huge phase shifts that make good subwoofer integration all but impossible without DSP to fix the phase error.

Also, Amir reviews a ton of these, and they all have port resonances mucking up the sound around 1kHz. Why???

The answer, of course, is marketing: sealed-box bookshelves will sound very anemic without a properly integrated sub.

It's not just marketing. Ported speakers usually sound better because they produce more bass. People like bass.

 

[Chromatischism]

One more thing, I'm not sure I mentioned in a previous thread about this: The subwoofers SEEMED to negatively affect the sound of my home theater system, even though they were not in use! I can't be sure, but what happened was:

I have my 2 channel speakers in the same room as my projection-based home theater. The home theater system is a 5.0 system, big center channel, good size stand mounts, which flank the screen. At some points I had both JL subs sitting where I could place them along the floor under the screen, so behind my 2 channel towers, but in between the L/C/R home theater speakers. I also at times had one sub behind my sofa.

Anyway, I often listened to music on my home theater system too. Right after I'd put the subs in my room (powered off) and I played music on my home theater speakers, the bass seemed all bloated. I was confused, because playback in the room had always been tight and clean. Then movie playback, whenever there was significant bass in a scene, it was overblown and bloated too. Like really obnoxious.

It was so puzzling because I hadn't changed any settings or anything. The ONLY thing that changed was placing the subwoofers in the room.
For the entire time I had those subwoofers in the room (a long time) bass was more bloated from the home theater system.

Of course my system was a bit unusual since the subwoofers in the room were not in use (hence woofers not controlled by their amp or a signal) while the home theater system was playing.

When I mentioned this on the AVSforum some of the subwoofer-heads there said it was quite possible the woofers in the subs were resonating sympathetically with low bass, adding to the sound hence the bass bloat.

I don't know if that was happening, but once the subs were gone from the room (when I sold them not long ago)...sound from the home theater no longer seems to have that bass problem. All sounds more even.

Where were they placed? If I put an object in the corner my bass measures differently. It could be a chair, an ottoman, or...a subwoofer that's not on. The object is displacing the sound pressure that would normally congeal there.

 

[MarkS]

It's not just marketing. Ported speakers almost always sound better because they actually produce bass. People like bass.

That's what the subwoofer is for! I was talking specifically about speakers intended to be used with a sub.

 

[Chromatischism]

I have previously run a powered sub with these speakers, I never got it to sound better than these speakers do alone, when listening to music. Granted, I've never had the desire to listen to symphonic music at high enough volume to potentially notice missing the rumbling sub-bass that one occasionally experiences at a live performance, but I do listen to a fairly broad range of music, often at high volumes in excess of 90dB.

In order to properly experience bass it must be corrected for the room. Usually that means at least 2 subs with proper placement, delays and EQ applied. You can get lucky with 1, but it's rare.

 

[Chromatischism]

That's what the subwoofer is for! I was talking specifically about speakers intended to be used with a sub.

Gotcha.

In that case, I find ported speakers easier to integrate with a 60-80 Hz crossover without there sounding like there's a hole in the middle. Very general statement as I haven't tried all the speakers in the universe, but obviously that's a trait of sealed speakers.

Sealed speakers would need to be quite a bit more powerful (larger drivers) to work for me.

 

[MarkS]

What sealed speakers have you tried? I can find almost none on the market these days.

 

[Chromatischism]

I did find some good ones: the Focal OD 706 V, a 6.5" outdoor speaker and the ones Amir reviewed. These pack a punch and could be run as fronts but I have Buchardt S400 MKII's up front so there's no contest there. The Focals do well mounted up as heights and I can cross them at 80 Hz no problem; Audyssey recommends 60 Hz, likely due to them being near a boundary (the ceiling). This model was discontinued and replaced by one that performs very similarly but with a different name and higher price...

 

[Pearljam5000]

It's not just marketing. Ported speakers almost always sound better because they actually produce bass. People like bass.

So the KH310 has no bass because it's a sealed design?

 

[Chromatischism]

So the KH310 has no bass because it's a sealed design?

That's a rather powerful 8.25" speaker so I'm sure it does produce some bass. But it would do more if ported.

 

[DanielT]

You’ve missed my point completely.

I could easily afford subs, or a decent surround system, and even an LP collection. My problem is the cost of housing, alongside other personal constraints.

Money is not a problem
House costs
Personal constraints

Sounds like a riddle to solve. In any case, so uh something ...

I see you're talking about lack of space. If you do not have space, you do not have space. Then you have to adapt your mouth to the food bag.

If now it is so important to have a lot of 18 "sub, then you may well move to new accommodation where there is space. I solved the mystery!

 

[Pearljam5000]

...is that what I said?

That's a rather powerful 8.25" speaker so I'm sure it does produce some bass. But it would do more if ported.

Then why sealed designs even exist if they are worst than ported and produce less bass?

 

[aac]

When I mentioned this on the AVSforum some of the subwoofer-heads there said it was quite possible the woofers in the subs were resonating sympathetically with low bass, adding to the sound hence the bass bloat.

Do you know if the drivers of subs were shorted when you tried that?

 

[DanielT]

What sealed speakers have you tried? I can find almost none on the market these days.

Could it be because nowadays with the help of modern computer software it is easier to design ported speakers? In the past, people often (what I remember) talked about sealed being "nice hi-fi" and ported speakers was more for young people who wanted to pound a lot of bass but cared less about the actual sound quality.

A well-constructed ported speaker
beats a sealed one every day of the week. Tighter bass, less distortion, more "nice hifi". There are only benefits. As I see it. Note: A well constructed.

 

[MattHooper]

Where were they placed? If I put an object in the corner my bass measures differently. It could be a chair, an ottoman, or...a subwoofer that's not on. The object is displacing the sound pressure that would normally congeal there.

Yes, that was also something I considered. As I mentioned I placed two subs at various spots behind the 2 channel speaker towers, which put them on either side of my center channel, (with the L/R home theater speakers flanking the subs). I also tried other positions but not for long.
Also had one sub in that position, another behind my sofa for a while.

(BTW, at one point I tried integrating only the single sub behind my sofa. I was actually quite impressed how well it integrated, all things considered).

 

[Chromatischism]

Then why sealed designs even exist if they are worst than ported and produce less bass?

I'm not the designer, but if I had to guess; that is a near-field monitor and they didn't want to risk audible port noise due to its proximity.

That's not to say it's an unsolvable problem. Kali doesn't have issues with that.

They could also be going for low group delay.

Or they just needed to keep the box size down knowing that subs should be used with their system.