Wharfedale Diamond 12 Owner's Thread

[Willem]

I had the 9.0 in a modest secundary system, and I quite enjoyed them for their lack of obvious vices. The only issue was nearfield use, where I found the drivers did not quite integrate at such a short listening distance. I replaced them with a pair of QAcoustics 3010 that were better in near field, but otherwise required some equalization to tame a harsh top.
I also have a pair of Diamond 220s in our "garden room" and I think those are the best budget speakers I have heard (I bought them at 125 euros the pair). Just as Amir observed, bass is weak but clean, and for use in a large room can be addresssed with a small subwoofer. I did not notice any issue in nearfield, but did not try that for any length of time.
Listening to such budget speakers I must admit that I am pleasantly surprised how much you can get for so little these days. I admit that my Harbeth P3ESR desktop speakers are clearly better, but they should be at their far more elevated price and the same is true even more for my Quad electrostats. Even so, good modern budget speakers can be impressively good. Since budget electronics can be similarly good, these are happy days for small budgets.

 

[Mal]

I had the 9.0 in a modest secundary system, and I quite enjoyed them for their lack of obvious vices. The only issue was nearfield use, where I found the drivers did not quite integrate at such a short listening distance.

What did the "lack of integration" sound like to you? This might be my problem - the highs might sound harsh because of this lack of integration. They do sound better if I move from 1m to 3m. I was using them for several months at 3m metre distance as TV speakers and didn't have the angst I'm now experiencing at 1 meter. My computer desk can't really handle speakers wider than the Wharfedale Diamond 9.0, so the Diamond 220s & Harbeth P3ESR are a bit too big.

Hence my interest in the Wharfedale Diamond 12.0.

So what do owners think? If you listen to within a metre do the drivers sound unintegrated? That is, do you detect a harsh sound & a seperation of sound at 1 metre that you don't experience at 3?

My KEF LSX sound great at any distance I've tried them - though I need to do more 1 metre listening with them - they are now my 3 metre TV speakers! Wouldn't one expect the uni-q driver to be a real winner in a very near field context? Automatic guarantee of integration?

The QAcoustics 3010 are on my list, but I worry about the reports of "harsh top". How does their "top" compare to Wharfedale Diamond 12's?

What equalisation did you use? I have a chromebox, so equalisation options are limited. I've had problems finding a neat free equaliser extension/app for my Wharfedale Diamond 9s ... and my equalisation experiments haven't been a great success (maybe because lack of integration is my main problem?!...)

This audio game is hard...

 

[Willem]

It has been too long ago since I last heard my Diamond 9.0s (one of then died for no obvious reason). I have no issues with the near field response of the Diamond 220, so maybe the Diamond 121 will be fine as well - I don't know. However, since this would be for a desktop system, you may consider using a bit of equalizing with Equalizer Apo on the PC.

 

[Mal]

.... you may consider using a bit of equalizing with Equalizer Apo on the PC.

My desktop is a chromebox and Equalizer Apo is not avaiable under Chrome OS. There's not a general solution at the OS level under Chrome OS, and the various apps/extensions I've found are problematic enough to make them all a pain to use, if they work at all.

 

[warpdrive]

I feel that nearfield is where these speakers shine. From the various measurements, we know that the droop in the mids becomes more prominent off axis resulting in a "laid back" sound, but in the nearfield, the on-axis is quite flat and it sounds very neutral. I don't detect any droop when sitting up close.

I decided to give the 12.0 a try as nearfield speakers and they are very good. Bass extension could be better so a sub is still recommended, but I have no issues with the sound with them on a 31" deep desk, they sound as good as my old Dynaudio speakers. I am driving them with the Topping MX5 which is nice because it has auto-on/off so when I turn on my computer, sound comes out without flipping any switches or inputs.

 

[RCBC8822]

New to the audiophile game. very happy to get a system setup.

I have the 12.4's paired with a Cambridge CXA81 and the CXC CD transport.. Speakers have about 40 hrs on them and the highs seem to scream once I get up about 1/2 way on the amp dial (Amp is 80w RMS @ 8ohm) . it is particularly harsh with Cd's and less so when streaming via Bluetooth. Also the bass is very inconsistent some recording are great and some are meh (have a SVS SB-2000 arriving on Monday). Definitely songs I know there is bass and its just not showing up.

I know I don't have them in the optimal location (they are in my basement, concrete walls) but will eventually go into a new family room ( 26x30) above the garage. but right now they seem a mess. Would Bi-Amping help, should I switch to Toslink for the CDC to Amp connection? Spent a lot of money and not wowed yet.

Thanks

 

[knownothing]

From measurement, elac dbr62 seems to be better than wharefdale 12.2. From my listening experience, I prefers wharfedale 12.2 (still curious why 12.2 sounds nicer when objectively dbr62 looks better).

For 12.0 vs 12.1 vs 12.2, I always prefers 12.2 (even with plug) and I have a good reason. 12.2 has bass low enough that could cover most music genres. For 12.2, you are still fine without subwoofer (unless you're a fan of music that has really low bass). For 12.0 and 12.1 without subwoofer, you would feel you've missed something.

Because measurements made in anechoic chamber are the technical performance envelope for a hifi product and how they actually sound to your ears with your gear and source material in your listening environment is really what matters when you lay down your hard earned money and make a decision on what stays or what goes.

 

[knownothing]

I am using 12.0’s on my desk top at work. They are great, but they didn’t start out that way. Source is PC laptop running JRiver v29, Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 with Jitterbug, Rega Brio R (older version bought used).

At first with the speakers right out of the box, this set up sounded decent at low volume, but closed in and shouty at moderate to higher volume. This lasted for a LONG time. Because I was in an office environment, they didn’t get cranked up very often, and I just assumed maybe the Brio wasn’t up to spec, or just wasn’t that good of an amp.

It took literally about half a year of low level playing and occasionally party level blasting for these speakers to come into their own. Now this system sounds absolutely remarkable from low level near field all the way up to near 90db. The imaging in near field with the speakers on either side of my computer monitor is spooky good. SO BREAK THEM IN FULLY BEFORE JUDGING - ESPECIALLY THE MIDS AND BASS, although the treble is also now extraordinary for a budget speaker.

A final note, these speakers are fully capable of distinguishing between DACs. I tried an Audioquest Dragonfly Red, and didn’t like, too bright with or without a Jitterbug inline. I tried the Brio/Diamond 12.0 system with a Chord QuteHD DAC, which retailed new for more than this entire system, and omg, the detail and the bass!

A second final note, a sub would help a lot, but you better get a good one that can keep up with these speakers. The bass that is there is great, but below 65hz it’s pretty much MIA. The speakers are about 6” from the back wall, and get some reinforcement, but no bloat even at high volume.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

wharefale 12.2 or elac dbr62 ...hmmm decisions decisions

1) Did you end up checking them both?
2) Does anyone know why Wharefale Diamonds 12.2 haven't been tested in here, yet? The 12.1 seemed to have done well. Curious how the 12.2 would do.
3) Would be running on my old Pioneer A-505R (unless it would be much better to upgrade?). This seems to indicate the below, but some sticker on mine says 100W+100W (apologies, I am absolutely new to this and just love and want to enjoy great sound): https://www.hifi-wiki.de/index.php/Pioneer_A-505_R
Continuous power (at distortion factor)
8 ohms: 2x 50W (0.06%)
4 ohms: 2x 70W (0.09%)

Based on the tests in this forum, I have narrowed down to the below 5. Unfortunately, can't try them all in the same place. Quite curious about your experience with comparing any of those ... Any favourites from here?
a. Elac DBR62.
b. KEF Q350.
c. Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52.
d. Wharfedale Diamond 12.2.
e. Mission QX-2 - my local shop has a good deal on them, but not much info online :/ Like Wharfedale, also part of the International Audio Group.
Anybody maybe has tested those?

4) Looking at this, does it mean that in the end it's possible to EQ any of the above 5 speakers to achieve any of the others?

Probably many of you know that Crutchfield has SpeakerCompare online listening tool. There you can listen to any music or sound through the equalization of different speakers. I listened to different ones, and indeed, all the sound differences between them correspond exactly to the spinoramas from ASR, (Erin, Napilopez). I decided to use EQ matching technology in order to see the difference between Elac Debut Reference DBR62 and Diamond 12.2. It means that this equalization (picture below) must be applied to Elacs in order to get Diamons. Voxengo Curve EQ was used for this purpose.
View attachment 218485
Now we can add this correction to the existing Elac's graph to get the Diamonds 12.2 frequency response. I don't like to draw on the computer, so I did it on paper. You can be sure of the accuracy of my transfer, I spent a lot of time on this and was very meticulous and attentive. Because I wanted to get the most accurate result. So here it is:
View attachment 218492
This is a very good graph with unevenness from a straight line +/- 2db in between 100hz - 17khz. The only slight problem for my personal taste is the weakened 100Hz range. But this is not a problem if you use the equalizer. Especially for such a ridiculous price tag. Therefore, as soon as I finished drawing the graph, I ordered them.

 

[Willem]

A final note, these speakers are fully capable of distinguishing between DACs.

DId you confirm this unlikely claim under controled blind conditions?

 

[Palladium]

I like my non-EQed 12.2s much better than the Kali LP-6 v2 for nearfield desktop, and the other way around in my untreated living room.

 

[Willem]

It took literally about half a year of low level playing and occasionally party level blasting for these speakers to come into their own.

This looks like another unlikely claim that is not confiormed by a controled test: did you buy a second set or do you manage time travel?

 

[KefRespector666]

Howdy, I was curious if anyone here had experience plugging the diamonds ports? I saw it mentioned in this thread but didn’t see any anecdotes from after plugging.

If adding a sub, plugging the mains seems like a good thing yes? Tighter response and less boom, and of course the sub takes over the low stuff.

My setup is budget in a room about 24x13 feet. Running wiim pro via coax into as301 into diamond 12.2s. The rearbaffle is about 12 inches away from rear wall. All plugged into Panamax mr4300. Thinking of adding sb2000 pro or rsl sw. Then some sort of external dac.

 

[Keerati]

Howdy, I was curious if anyone here had experience plugging the diamonds ports? I saw it mentioned in this thread but didn’t see any anecdotes from after plugging.

If adding a sub, plugging the mains seems like a good thing yes? Tighter response and less boom, and of course the sub takes over the low stuff.

My setup is budget in a room about 24x13 feet. Running wiim pro via coax into as301 into diamond 12.2s. The rearbaffle is about 12 inches away from rear wall. All plugged into Panamax mr4300. Thinking of adding sb2000 pro or rsl sw. Then some sort of external dac.

From my own experience, there is no substantial difference except less low bass. Still, I just listening it normally, not a controlled test.

 

[crappypanther]

Howdy, I was curious if anyone here had experience plugging the diamonds ports?

If after plugging the speaker ports, you still have enough sub-bass, then this makes little sense. This will shorten the group delay of the speakers bass. However, in practice, most likely you will not notice any advantages, I usually just listen to which option I like best. At 12.2. beautiful gently falling sub-low. U can add a subwoofer quite a bit, and there will be beauty in general.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I have the 12.4's paired with a Cambridge CXA81 and the CXC CD transport.. Speakers have about 40 hrs on them and the highs seem to scream once I get up about 1/2 way on the amp dial (Amp is 80w RMS @ 8ohm).

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with that selection at all.
If you reduce the bass and the highs stay harsh, the problem might be speaker related, if by reducing the bass the highs get less screamy, your amp might have a problem delivering enough power.

Also the bass is very inconsistent some recording are great and some are meh (have a SVS SB-2000 arriving on Monday). Definitely songs I know there is bass and its just not showing up.

Sadly the room is far more important than the speakers in the bass region. I highly recommend to get a measurement microphone like the UMIK1 to really learn what is going on. Also, make sure to check your phase (polarity) of the speakers.

I know I don't have them in the optimal location (they are in my basement, concrete walls) but will eventually go into a new family room ( 26x30) above the garage. but right now they seem a mess.

There is no such thing as "optimal" in the real world, it's always a fight between expectation and reality ;-)

Would Bi-Amping help

I don't think so, the power test further up should give you a hint if your speakers scream because the amp runs out of juice.

should I switch to Toslink for the CDC to Amp connection?

I don't believe it makes a difference one could reliably identify in a blind listening test, but a toslink cable costs 5€ at Amazon, so you might give that a go, if only to satisfy your curiosity if something like that makes a audible difference at all.

Spent a lot of money and not wowed yet.

Yeah, seems you have two fundamental problem you need to solve, bass strangeness and tweeter harshness. Before getting new stuff i would recommend a measurement microphone to deeper insights.

 

[IndieSynth]

Do any 12.2 owners have standard eq settings they use? I know the room will make a difference, but any advice on eq settings for getting the best out of them in general?

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Do any 12.2 owners have standard eq settings they use? I know the room will make a difference, but any advice on eq settings for getting the best out of them in general?

I have a pair of wharfedale 225s and I happily use apple music EQ-presets.

 

[beagleman]

New to the audiophile game. very happy to get a system setup.

I have the 12.4's paired with a Cambridge CXA81 and the CXC CD transport.. Speakers have about 40 hrs on them and the highs seem to scream once I get up about 1/2 way on the amp dial (Amp is 80w RMS @ 8ohm) . it is particularly harsh with Cd's and less so when streaming via Bluetooth. Also the bass is very inconsistent some recording are great and some are meh (have a SVS SB-2000 arriving on Monday). Definitely songs I know there is bass and its just not showing up.

I know I don't have them in the optimal location (they are in my basement, concrete walls) but will eventually go into a new family room ( 26x30) above the garage. but right now they seem a mess. Would Bi-Amping help, should I switch to Toslink for the CDC to Amp connection? Spent a lot of money and not wowed yet.

Thanks

Knowing what I know of this tweeter, and being a 12 series owner, I highly doubt it is speaker or more precisely tweeter related.

Never heard the 12.4s but have read, all models are voiced to the same "sound", so would think maybe more amp or personal opinion or taste, as the 12 series is not known at all for strong highs, but closer to a neutral flat high end overall.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Knowing what I know of this tweeter, and being a 12 series owner, I highly doubt it is speaker or more precisely tweeter related.

Agreed.

New to the audiophile game. very happy to get a system setup.

Welcome. And welcome to ASR

I have the 12.4's paired with a Cambridge CXA81

Should be a fine combo.

Speakers have about 40 hrs on them

I hope you didn't waste it with "burning them in", but listening to tunes. Most around here don't see evidence that burn in is a thing and opine that is is the owner who needs to tune certain neural pathways to adapt to the new speakers.

and the highs seem to scream once I get up about 1/2 way on the amp dial (Amp is 80w RMS @ 8ohm)

Plenty of power in my room. But maybe you have a giant hall that you call your living room?

You might have a fault that only happens if the input power is very high. Say they forgot to add ferro-fluid for dampening and cooling to the tweeter in production, it could lead to resonances and higher sensitivty of the tweeter.
But that is hard to judge and to be honest, a bit unlikely, Wharfedale knows to measure speakers at least once in production, they surely would have caught the problem.

I see little alternative but to ask if someone can lend you a measurement microphone, like a UMIK1. Then you know, you can measure at different volumes and see if something changes indeed. I bought one for 140€, it's not that pricey and a great investment, maybe one of the best i ever made in this hobby.

it is particularly harsh with Cd's and less so when streaming via Bluetooth

CDs are full range, up to 20kHz. Bluetooth, depending on the codec used, cuts everything above 18kHz or so.
Some old CDs are recorded with emphasis, which sounds harsh if the player or DAC doesn't compensate for that.

Also the bass is very inconsistent some recording are great and some are meh (have a SVS SB-2000 arriving on Monday).

Good choice for the sub, i have two SB-1000 myself, very happy with them.
1) Some recordings suck. That is why amps have bass and treble knobs, for exact that problem.
2) Again, get a calibrated microphone to get insight into what is really happening.
3) Make sure neither speaker is out of phase (check the speaker cables plus and minus sides).
4) Do you change listening positions often? If you move in the room you will hear distinct changes in bass intensity, that is normal.

right now they seem a mess. Would Bi-Amping help, should I switch to Toslink for the CDC to Amp connection? Spent a lot of money and not wowed yet.

None of that really helps, i'm afraid.
Bi-Amping: you could play louder (if the speakers can take it). That's it.
Toslink: It's highly unlikely that the DAC is the problem. But it might be fun to get a cable and see if you can hear differences between the DACs. My guess is both DACs are better than your hearing, we call those DACs transparent. It would be hard to find a DAC of the last 10 or so years that isn't transparent.

Start with the basics, check the phase. Also move in the room, you will notice the bass is different in different places. If your listening position changes often, that might explain the bass thing.
If that doesn't fix it, get or lend a microphone. Maybe you can invite some ASR member with a microphone for some free coffee and cake?