Wanting to upgrade out of my Onkyo RZ50... is anything really better though?

[voip-ninja]

I have had an RZ50 now for a few years and, it works okay for the most part.

I have a couple of problems with it. The unit has a hard time driving my 4 ohm PSB Imagine series speakers. It can do it, but when the amp is set to normal 8ohm impedance it has a relay that randomly clicks loudly during playback and it is rather annoying.

The other issue I have is that as great as Dirac Live is for reference listening in my room that has a terrible layout, Dirac is kind of worthless when we are listening at much lower volume levels at night... my older AVR with Audyssey did a much better job with this.

I've been looking at Marantz Cinema 40, and other AVRs.... hoping to resolve these problems. The Marantz/Denon ones have the "best of both worlds" in that I could use both Audyssey and Dirac presets depending on my preference for the time of day, content, etc...

However, it seems to me the Denon/Marantz units still lagging on HDMI side and don't do HDMI 2.1A, and I'd like to eventually be using Quick Media Switching as it matures to eliminate annoying video black outs when switching different formats to my TV.

Is Sony 7000ES any better?

 

[kyuu]

I have a couple of problems with it. The unit has a hard time driving my 4 ohm PSB Imagine series speakers. It can do it, but when the amp is set to normal 8ohm impedance it has a relay that randomly clicks loudly during playback and it is rather annoying.

I wonder if that's the unit switching between low- and high-power rails? Switching to 4 ohm doesn't do anything except essentially power-limit the amplifier, so if it doesn't do that when set to 4 ohm it may just be because it's never switching to the high-power rail. I can definitely see that being annoying.

However, it seems to me the Denon/Marantz units still lagging on HDMI side and don't do HDMI 2.1A, and I'd like to eventually be using Quick Media Switching as it matures to eliminate annoying video black outs when switching different formats to my TV.

I'm not aware of any AVRs that have HDMI 2.1A as of yet.

Is Sony 7000ES any better?

Likely not, although perhaps it might not have the irritating clacky relay. Have you looked at their listing for it? Filled with all sorts of wild nonsense claims and lacking even basic specs like the wattage for the amplifier section. Also doesn't have HDMI 2.1A. Also doesn't have Dirac or Audyssey and I haven't seen any sort of data regarding their propriety "Digital Cinema Auto Calibration IX".

If you really like the idea of switching between Audyssey and Dirac depending on the circumstance I'm afraid Denon/Marantz is really the only game. People are probably starting to think I'm a JBL shill here but I'd also point to the JBL MA-line. Uses class D amps, so shouldn't be any chance of clacky relays. The two top-end models can switch between Dirac and their included EZ Set EQ room correction, though can't tell you if you'll like the latter at all of course.

 

[voip-ninja]

I wonder if that's the unit switching between low- and high-power rails? Switching to 4 ohm doesn't do anything except essentially power-limit the amplifier, so if it doesn't do that when set to 4 ohm it may just be because it's never switching to the high-power rail. I can definitely see that being annoying.

I'm not aware of any AVRs that have HDMI 2.1A as of yet.

Likely not, although perhaps it might not have the irritating clacky relay. Have you looked at their listing for it? Filled with all sorts of wild nonsense claims and lacking even basic specs like the wattage for the amplifier section. Also doesn't have HDMI 2.1A. Also doesn't have Dirac or Audyssey and I haven't seen any sort of data regarding their propriety "Digital Cinema Auto Calibration IX".

If you really like the idea of switching between Audyssey and Dirac depending on the circumstance I'm afraid Denon/Marantz is really the only game. People are probably starting to think I'm a JBL shill here but I'd also point to the JBL MA-line. Uses class D amps, so shouldn't be any chance of clacky relays. The two top-end models can switch between Dirac and their included EZ Set EQ room correction, though can't tell you if you'll like the latter at all of course.

Doing a bit more research it seems that there are no HDMI 2.1a AVRs available yet as a single company makes the HDMI chipset for pretty much all AVRs and idiotically built the HDMI chipset in the newest gen receivers to not be firmware upgradeable to handle all the features... additionally, capped to 40gbps when it needs to do 48gbps to fully support the specification.

I think you are 100% correct on switching between low and high power rails on the Onkyo, I believe that was the consensus when I first started looking into the problem. It is rather annoying as the relay click is quite loud and can be heard even when listening to a movie at a pretty good volume level.

Leaning towards Marantz Cinema 40 or 50 as I can get a bit of a discount... might take the sting out when selling and upgrading again in a few years when newer AVR video chipsets become available.

I know Denon are essentially the same unit but I like the Marantz styling and the Marantz have a longer warranty.... additionally Cinema 40 made in Japan.

 

[jomo]

I have a couple of problems with it. The unit has a hard time driving my 4 ohm PSB Imagine series speakers. It can do it, but when the amp is set to normal 8ohm impedance it has a relay that randomly clicks loudly during playback and it is rather annoying.

Keep the RZ50 and use the front pre-out. Nominal 4 ohm speakers likely dip under 4 ohms and most AVRs will struggle with that. I run my Pioneer LX505 (RZ50 clone) with a refreshed B&K ST-202+ driving homemade 4 ohm speakers. Now I have 300W available to the front channels no matter running 2.1 or 9.1 and it sounds great.

As to your issues with Dirac, I can't help. For me, it has been a godsend for my awful listening room (lots of windows and a domed ceiling).

 

[voip-ninja]

Keep the RZ50 and use the front pre-out. Nominal 4 ohm speakers likely dip under 4 ohms and most AVRs will struggle with that. I run my Pioneer LX505 (RZ50 clone) with a refreshed B&K ST-202+ driving homemade 4 ohm speakers. Now I have 300W available to the front channels no matter running 2.1 or 9.1 and it sounds great.

As to your issues with Dirac, I can't help. For me, it has been a godsend for my awful listening room (lots of windows and a domed ceiling).

I don’t have the space for an external amp for the RZ50 but it was my first option.

An outboard amp does not solve the problem of low level night time listening with Dirac, which is not good. If you always listen at moderate to loud volume levels you won’t observe this issue but it is extremely well documented by owners as well as professional reviewers of systems with Dirac.

 

[kyuu]

Ah so what you're looking for is loudness equalization. Yeah, that's one of the killer features of Audyssey that Dirac, for some reason, just does not seem interested in doing despite its importance for listening at lower volumes as you have discovered.

I remember a thread where someone posted a guide on how to save multiple Dirac EQs where one was for reference and the others were adjusted for loudness compensation that you could switch to for lower listening levels. Can't remember where I found that thread though.

 

[voip-ninja]

Ah so what you're looking for is loudness equalization. Yeah, that's one of the killer features of Audyssey that Dirac, for some reason, just does not seem interested in doing despite its importance for listening at lower volumes as you have discovered.

I remember a thread where someone posted a guide on how to save multiple Dirac EQs where one was for reference and the others were adjusted for loudness compensation that you could switch to for lower listening levels. Can't remember where I found that thread though.

Yes, I've wasted a lot of hours tweaking Dirac Live curves trying to recreate the volume compression that Audyssey does so effectively with just a button press. It is a wasted effort for me personally. I think I'll have to go back to Audyssey to get this capability... as you've pointed out the Dirac folks don't seem particularly interested in this issue, guess they don't have kids or live in apartments or whatever.

I was not aware that the Denon/Marantz gear are the only ones that have BOTH processing systems... so it seems that a Marantz 40/50 or Denon 4800/3800 are in my future.

Thanks again.

 

[voip-ninja]

Follow-up is that I have ordered a Marantz Cinema 40 that should be here next week. While it was more expensive than Denon X4500h, after comparing the two from a simple cosmetics standpoint, and considering I was able to get Cinema 40 for 30% off of MSRP I elected to spend more and get the Marantz unit.

 

[Emi]

Follow-up is that I have ordered a Marantz Cinema 40 that should be here next week. While it was more expensive than Denon X4500h, after comparing the two from a simple cosmetics standpoint, and considering I was able to get Cinema 40 for 30% off of MSRP I elected to spend more and get the Marantz unit.

Hi Ninja!
I am on the same boat you were back in September.
Are you happy with the Marantz 40? Please share your feedback compared with the RZ, not in features but just in sound quality. 100 movies here, since for audio I use a NAD.
I was trying to get th RZ70 since I love the Onkyo sound but I only have access to Denon 6800 or Marantz C40