Uncoloured phono cartridges

[anmpr1]

No comment on the Garrard "zero tracking error" arm/decks.

I think I'm the only person who ever really liked it. It's like the late Viv Stanshall once quipped, "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" LOL

 

[anmpr1]

So far in my casual search for a cart (MM or MC) with nude-mounted, line contact sylus, the lowest-cost options that I've found so far seem to be:

AT VM95ML has a nude square shank ML stylus for $169.00. That has to be bargain basement.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/at-vm95ml

 

[anmpr1]

What I really don't understand is how A/T can offer a ML diamond plus cartridge for 169 dollars, while Ortofon sells a comparable replacement stylus (no body) for $374.00 (the OM40). I know that when Marcellus was explaining the situation to Horatio he didn't have Ortofon in mind, but one has to admit that something is a bit 'fishy' in the smell department, given the asking price and spread between the two diamonds--one coming from Denmark and the other Japan.

 

[Angsty]

What I really don't understand is how A/T can offer a ML diamond plus cartridge for 169 dollars, while Ortofon sells a comparable replacement stylus (no body) for $374.00 (the OM40). I know that when Marcellus was explaining the situation to Horatio he didn't have Ortofon in mind, but one has to admit that something is a bit 'fishy' in the smell department, given the asking price and spread between the two diamonds--one coming from Denmark and the other Japan.

The pricing for Ortofon may be related to the need to discourage a 2M Blue or Red customer from simply adding the Bronze stylus.

 

[anmpr1]

The pricing for Ortofon may be related to the need to discourage a 2M Blue or Red customer from simply adding the Bronze stylus.

A/T almost certainly sources their styli-cantilevers from Adamant (Namiki). And I'd bet that they are that company's largest account. When someone can offer a ML cartridge for significantly less than two hundred dollars then you know they must be buying them by the discounted barrel load.

https://www.ad-na.com/en/product/jewel/product/stylus.html

I have no knowledge of where Ortofon obtains their raw product, or if they are ground/mounted in-house. However it is, Ortofon cartridges are on the expensive side of the fence. I'm not saying they are not quality. Just expensive.

 

[Soniclife]

The pricing for Ortofon may be related to the need to discourage a 2M Blue or Red customer from simply adding the Bronze stylus.

2M Series styli interchangeability:
The 2M Series' engines, coils and magnets configurations are not identical: Red and Blue are identical, so are the Bronze and Black and so are the true mono variants 2M Mono and 2M 78.

They claim that's not possible / advised.

 

[JeffS7444]

Another possible option is to take a cartridge you already have and get it re-tipped. I had a cartridge re-tipped with a nude line contact stylus and a new aluminum cantilever by Vinyl Audio Science for less than $250 US.

That would be an excellent idea if I still had my Denon DL103, particularly as these carts were not originally equipped with such styli.

 

[JeffS7444]

AT VM95ML has a nude square shank ML stylus for $169.00. That has to be bargain basement.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/at-vm95ml

Definite "maybe" there: Was initially underwhelmed by what I heard versus Ortofon 2M Blue here:
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/ortofon-2m-blue-versus-audio-technica-vm95ml
But realized that I don't know what that particular track should sound like, and if the Ortofon recording sounds livelier, it maybe also sounds more distorted.

 

[JeffS7444]

The pricing for Ortofon may be related to the need to discourage a 2M Blue or Red customer from simply adding the Bronze stylus.

Cost of the cartridge body by itself seems fairly trivial, so that's not a factor for me.

 

[Angsty]

They claim that's not possible / advised.

It’s possible; it’s not advised. Doing so will not turn a Blue cartridge into a Bronze cartridge; the motor design is a bit different. My point is that product and pricing decisions were made to explicitly divide the 2M range to limit the temptation to simply swap styli at all levels.

It would have been quite possible to design a single identical body for all four styli, but in doing so, Ortofon would miss out on additional upgrade revenue and may have crimped profit margins on the Red/Blue end.

The body design between the Red/Blue and Bronze/Black is not enough to make much manufacturing cost difference, but it does guide the upgrade path pricing. This is a business, after all.

 

[StefaanE]

It would have been quite possible to design a single identical body for all four styli, but in doing so, Ortofon would miss out on additional upgrade revenue and may have crimped profit margins on the Red/Blue end

And Ortofon indeed have/had a range (OM/OMB) with a single body and styli ranging from cheap (OM5) to fairly expensive (OM40). Maybe they learned something .

 

[anmpr1]

The body design between the Red/Blue and Bronze/Black is not enough to make much manufacturing cost difference, but it does guide the upgrade path pricing. This is a business, after all.

To compare, the bodies of the Shure V15 V-MR and the V15xMR were different--the xMR stylus would not fit the earlier cartridge.

On the other hand, the V15x and M97x body shapes were similar, and allowed for interchangeable styli between the two. However the electrical properties of the two bodies were different, due to internal body design differences (this according to the Shure FAQ).

With two OM style cartridges, I'd buy a 40 stylus if they were priced like an A/T. But IMO Ortofon's asks too much for what they offer. I just don't see the value in it.

 

[Barewires]

My MI Nagaoka MP-500 sells for more than my DL-103, AT33 Mono, AT33EV, and AT33SA MCs.

I have a Nakaoka MP-300 and love it, but I still want a Koetsu or Lyra. I can't stop wondering how much better it would be, or just different. Someone asked the owner of Nagaoka which was the best cartridge they made is. He said he liked the MP-300, so I bought one. It sounds stunning at times. Other times the recording or record just sucks and there is nothing you can do about that.

 

[Barewires]

In other words, they are the Audio Quest of the cartridge world.

I will never forget going to the 1982 Stereophile show in Los Angeles. As I was leaving, walking down the street I saw the owner of Audio Quest come out of the parking garage in new british racing green corniche convertible rolls royce. He has sold a few feet of mediocre wire in past years.

 

[Sal1950]

I have a Nakaoka MP-300 and love it, but I still want a Koetsu or Lyra. I can't stop wondering how much better it would be, or just different. Someone asked the owner of Nagaoka which was the best cartridge they made is. He said he liked the MP-300, so I bought one. It sounds stunning at times. Other times the recording or record just sucks and there is nothing you can do about that.

I know I tease the vinyl guys here a lot but speaking seriously, spending that kind of money on a needle is just nuts. I guess if that amount of money is pocket change to you it's fine, but the reality of the situation is that the same master avavailable digitally thru a $100 DAC would destroy the LP for sound quality. I just don't get it.

 

[Robin L]

I know I tease the vinyl guys here a lot but speaking seriously, spending that kind of money on a needle is just nuts. I guess if that amount of money is pocket change to you it's fine, but the reality of the situation is that the same master avavailable digitally thru a $100 DAC would destroy the LP for sound quality. I just don't get it.

I've got one of those $129 DACs. Amazing what gets through, stuff I never got to hear on the LPs.

 

[BDWoody]

I know I tease the vinyl guys here a lot but speaking seriously, spending that kind of money on a needle is just nuts. I guess if that amount of money is pocket change to you it's fine, but the reality of the situation is that the same master avavailable digitally thru a $100 DAC would destroy the LP for sound quality. I just don't get it.

Great question...

I recently picked up 2 old TT's... One each of the Technics SL-10 and SL-15. Not really sure why, other than I wanted to see how they would compare to another old TT I have before starting to rip my (not very big) record collection.

I don't very often just sit and play an album, but I do enough that I don't plan on NOT having one.

I'm not attracted to the TT's that require a ton of messing around with (pretty obvious given the two I just got), which for some is the very appeal.

So, that was a long and worthless answer, because I really have no idea.

 

[Doodski]

Great question...

I recently picked up 2 old TT's... One each of the Technics SL-10 and SL-15. Not really sure why, other than I wanted to see how they would compare to another old TT I have before starting to rip my (not very big) record collection.

I don't very often just sit and play an album, but I do enough that I don't plan on NOT having one.

I'm not attracted to the TT's that require a ton of messing around with (pretty obvious given the two I just got), which for some is the very appeal.

So, that was a long and worthless answer, because I really have no idea.

I sold many SL-10 back in the day and funny that I Googled the SL-15 and realized I've never ever seen one. They where not in Canada I guess. We used to order in needle assemblies for the Technics by flats of ~200 per. I've owned some Technics turntables and all where a joy to operate.

 

[Sal1950]

I recently picked up 2 old TT's... One each of the Technics SL-10 and SL-15.

I never had any interest in direct drive TT's, it was always belt drives for me. Funny how for most hifi people it was always one or the other. Very cultish this TT business. LOL

 

[Doodski]

I never had any interest in direct drive TT's, it was always belt drives for me. Funny how for most hifi people it was always one or the other. Very cultish this TT business. LOL

After my first Technics direct drive I never went back to belt for the daily driver.